English speaking

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.
Forum rules
This forum is for feature requests, content changes additions, anything not a Bug in the software.
Please report all bugs on the Support Forums
ville-v
Peon
Peon
Posts: 18
Joined: 02 Sep 2008, 12:54

Re: English speaking

Post by ville-v » 26 Dec 2008, 09:14

kr0n05931 wrote:I totally forgot how you have to be of a certain race to speak a language.
If you do not see the person, language is easy way to make judgments on. Your other posts are constantly spreading hatred against Portugues speaking people and basically every language. There is no term for language-based wrath, so it can be called racism.
The problem is that the more people we have speaking a language, the more people who can only speak that language hear about the game. Thus, we get the Portuguese Language epidemic of '07.
The problem is that the more people we have speaking a language, the more people who can only speak that language hear about the game, play it, and make it impossible for people who speak english to interact with other players. Seriously, knowing English needs to be a requirement for internet access
I have an idea, let's stick high frequency words from Portuguese and Spanish into a word filter that automatically bans you for a day for speaking (or attempting to in this case) a language other than English. This will greatly decrease the problems we experience with the flood of Portuguese and Spanish speaking on the public chat
I see using the race and English-only arguments as petty last-chance arguments when all of your arguments have been proven wrong. We have contradicted your points several times, and all y'all are doing now is constantly repeating yourselves.
I have not seen you to contradict anything. You are just jumping over points and nitpicking on single sentences. Exactly like you did in this post.
User avatar
yasha
Peon
Peon
Posts: 75
Joined: 15 Nov 2008, 22:52
Location: Virtual world

Re: English speaking

Post by yasha » 26 Dec 2008, 11:43

I'm glad that kr0n05931is an emperor of this game and that his word is strong as 100 of others.
I totally forgot how you have to be of a certain race to speak a language.
About that who said that? I'm Croatian (Europe) and i can speak Japanese. Japanese can speak English and people from Niger can speak German. everything is possible if you try hard.


Before you said about quests hard to understand... So complicated that without knowing English we can't pass them.
So if it is complicated so much not even 10-11-12 year-old English kids won't be able to understand it. And most of censuring is because of kids, right? What are you trying to do? Make this game playabe to people from English speaking countries in age of 20-21. I'm glad if you'll have more than 4 players.....

To me people who speak something i don't understand aren't problem. I leave them to speak, is that my problem? Is your problem if you don't know everything that everybody says? You are the boss so you must know everything, it's normal. I like to play with my brother, so we speak some mixture of Croatian and English (not in public area) so i understand when people speak on Spanish, German, Japanese or Egyptian.
Would you play this game if it was in Japanese, and you won't be able to speak English?


Hail to kr0n05931, master of TMW!
Hail to kr0n05931, maker of TMW!
Hail to kr0n05931, destroyer of TMW!
Uses Ubuntu 8.10 and The mana world 0.0.27.
User avatar
octalot
Novice
Novice
Posts: 214
Joined: 23 Sep 2008, 20:15

Re: English speaking

Post by octalot » 27 Dec 2008, 01:01

Rereading this discussion, there's talk about (on TMWServ) using the guild-channel system or other channel system for chat in languages other than the default language. I think this comment from Crush (back on page 3) would apply to that solution too.

I'm still considering which position I support. However, of the points that Crush raises, only the one about children seems to have been argued.
Crush wrote:
Elrrohir wrote:can someone tell me which kind of illegal stuff can a couple of players actually plan in the middle of a public area?
Because there is no way for a GM to intervent without understanding the language there are in fact a lot of illegal acts which could be performed in a public area with or against people who speak the same language, including but not limited to:

*Spreading false rumors about people
*Insulting people
*Exchange of racist or otherwise hateful propaganda (illegal in many countries)
*Sexual explicit conversations in proximity of minors

All of this can of course also be done in private, but allowing such exchanges to take place in public without a way to control them can become a serious problem. Allowing large mono-lingual communities to grow inside the game without any kind of moderation would be a big irresponsibility.

Of course I don't want to accuse any ethical group of wanting to practice above behavior, but creating any areas free of regulation is just a large risk that people who want to might be attracted.
Retired from TMW; incomplete projects looking for a dev:
Cave foliage (plants up the walls): http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5659
Cave wetwalls (water down the walls): http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5816
ville-v
Peon
Peon
Posts: 18
Joined: 02 Sep 2008, 12:54

Re: English speaking

Post by ville-v » 27 Dec 2008, 13:12

Don't you think players would report people who spread "let's pk all the jews" style propaganda or other things in their own language, no matter if it is done in public or in private?

Then all it takes is to find a couple of trustworthy people who know that language to find out if some sentence means "O. bin Laden rocks and let's bomb US embassy tomorrow 12.34 am." or "O. bin Laden sucks and I like those cookies they make in US.". If nobody trusts Google translator, that is.
celso
Peon
Peon
Posts: 49
Joined: 13 Jul 2008, 00:29
Location: Portugal!!!!

Re: English speaking

Post by celso » 27 Dec 2008, 14:12

in my opinion it should be as i said. make the chat system like eternal lands( by tabs and each tab is a language chat) and if a portuguese want to know something, he can ask in the portugese chat or make the game only english. if the people wants to play, learn english. who is the non english person who didnt played a game in other language? but as i said, its only my opinion.
User avatar
Crush
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 8046
Joined: 25 Aug 2005, 17:08
Location: Germany

Re: English speaking

Post by Crush » 27 Dec 2008, 16:40

ville-v wrote:Don't you think players would report people who spread "let's pk all the jews" style propaganda or other things in their own language, no matter if it is done in public or in private?
Even when people report it the game masters can not do anything because they don't understand the proof screenshots.
Then all it takes is to find a couple of trustworthy people who know that language to find out if some sentence means "O. bin Laden rocks and let's bomb US embassy tomorrow 12.34 am." or "O. bin Laden sucks and I like those cookies they make in US.". If nobody trusts Google translator, that is.
Finding trustworhy translators in conflict situations could be harder than you think. Especially when you do not know anyone of the people involved and their realation to each other. How do you know that the friendly person who volunteers as a translator is not a sock puppet of one of the people involved?
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
pnk
Peon
Peon
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 Dec 2008, 21:24

Re: English speaking

Post by pnk » 27 Dec 2008, 18:25

I have 10 years of experience in different MMORPG and 12 years in FREE SOFTWARE not hold the truth of the universe and the sacred torch of truth, but it passes all the roles that can be a MMORPG (developer, admin, GM, RM , GM Guild and the full range of end-user) and modestly can say that the only thing I learned is that everything is discussed. Nothing is final and the discussion of issues related both to development as to the role (arcs and other arguments) is always positive while retaining the point of debate. It's easy to grab and move the Source Code asia another project (which is a leader that nobody can argue) you have to believe the truth of the universe. But it is not productive for either the project or community groups that has illuminated the reason they have indisputable.

So based on my inegable as a human right to express what I say:

The fifth rule is negtiva for the project.

-It is against the concept of MMORPGs. if we do 20 to 10 servers in each pj is not a MMORPG and becomes a simple multiplayer.

-Makes it impossible to maintain a standard of work. The project leader can not tell each server standards that must be taken. And the fact of not having a standard makes adjustments to be made in different server can be mutually incompatible. It is impossible for the working group to audit the project root of code from 20 projects.

-Segment community. The positive aspect of a MMORPG is precisely the human factor multiplied by the number of people and multiculturalism.


What I see is that people who defended tooth and nail rule # 5 (which is a rule without grounds) saying "the rules are well respected and we must discuss and not" does the same with rule # 4 (no begging ). I never saw an overall mansaje a GM saying "do not ask items" did not see any beggar back telling someone "do not do it." but if I'm tired of seeing groups persecution among them who spoke their language (and I saw him in Portuguese, French and a language that is not nor was it: P) I would like to see that more sensible people and harass those who claim not speak English (for whatever reason already was said in this thread) do the same with the beggars. But that's not happening. If anyone beggars when they are shouting "ITEM PLEASE!" and spend most of them do not understand why attacks to non-English speakers.
In fact in recent hurnscald a call pj calling items enebeler was making a clear violation of Rule 4. Nobody said anything. But when a couple of people began to talk to each other in Portuguese and Spanish (while embeler followed with his own) sugarcorgit who was with qoal began to threaten with the violation of Rule 5. and when I ask him about putting interest in rule # 5 and not in violation of # 4 just replied "I love my ignore button. Soon back to the Dark Magician at least dialogue. This is why people talk about the persecution and falls speech "are the rules and must be respected if not an anarchist cases against everything established"


On the other hand can not understand how you can believe what illegal activities are well aware that the cases of pedophilia are trust never aware of any case of a pedophile who was on the street shouting "I want to rape a child!". It is a very complicated problematic (it is very difficult for us to expert left) and nobody denies that we must do everything possible to preserve the children of these abuses but not the way. What we see here is a fallacy to defend the indefensible pear that a pedophile would serve more use / whisper to speak on "Guarani". NEVER a pedophile would use the open channel for its activities presisamente know that there may be someone who understands and send prisoner. In these cases the game is used as a means to generate confiansa and used more "safe" as MSN Direct Line to make it to the victim.

Well there is much more to say about this but it would be very long and I think this is the foundation.
Aryanne
Peon
Peon
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 19:54

Re: English speaking

Post by Aryanne » 27 Dec 2008, 20:06

I agree with you

I play on TMW since one year and i think that it's nice to speak english, german, spanish, french in the same game...

I love this free-playing, and now i'm able to understand the conversation in this all speak...

I'm french, but i'm trying to improve my english... and my german...

Maybe you should limit the use of other languages, but don't forbid them...
I can speak english, ich spreche deutsch, je parle aussi français ;)
User avatar
Sushi_Chan
Peon
Peon
Posts: 6
Joined: 27 Dec 2008, 20:11
Location: Piou Land

Re: English speaking

Post by Sushi_Chan » 27 Dec 2008, 20:44

I agree with Aryanne and all...
I dont want that TMW become censured game
I'd like that everyone can be free to speak any languages anywhere..
Piou
â—ŠPiouâ—Š
User avatar
kr0n05931
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 652
Joined: 26 Jul 2008, 02:59
Location: United Socialist States of America
Contact:

Re: English speaking

Post by kr0n05931 » 27 Dec 2008, 21:04

Can we get an IP address check on all the people in this topic with <=10 posts?
Lazy bum.
Aryanne
Peon
Peon
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 19:54

Re: English speaking

Post by Aryanne » 27 Dec 2008, 21:28

It is not because we agree that we are the same person :wink:
I can speak english, ich spreche deutsch, je parle aussi français ;)
pnk
Peon
Peon
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 Dec 2008, 21:24

Re: English speaking

Post by pnk » 27 Dec 2008, 23:01

I agree with elrohir.

Krono you are a idiot.

The only answer you can give is porsue those who do not agree with you.

We enter the discussion. we show our point. We seek the consensus of the various community groups.

People like you who can not seriously argue that destroys projects.

We are not attacking the database, not the hack the server, the server does not fill bots making inaccessible. we show our views and seek consensus. which obviously can not do.

"It is an official rule so it is a correct rule" is circular reasoning. The rules are not set in stone. The server administrators can always change a rule when they think that it is counter-productiv. The rule announcement quoted above even says so.

So when someone thinks that a rule is stupid he or she is free to present arguments and try to change the admins mind.
Under the rules governing the civilized world since the French Revolution as we do not believe in an enlightened being that God gave power over the rest of the human inegable and the fact that we are all equal and we raised our proposal to abolish the Rule #5. we believe in what we say.

What counts is the solid of the speech not the quantity of post. actually a post elrrohir worth 100 Krono.

Vive la résistance!

still waiting for some evidence of intelligent life forms...
Quiche_on_a_leash
Novice
Novice
Posts: 221
Joined: 20 Oct 2006, 17:44

Re: English speaking

Post by Quiche_on_a_leash » 27 Dec 2008, 23:39

Well...

I've never seen #5 as concrete rule.
My interpretation is; You can speak other languages wherever you like, unless there is a group of other people who do not speak that language is present.
For example, say 3 Germans are talking by the pond in Tulmishar about crop rotation - like you do, that's completely okay in my view, however if another group were to turn up there - no matter what language they speak (unless it's the same) - it would be courteous for both groups to speak in the same language - English.

As for separate towns for different languages - no that's just segregation and should be avoided at all costs.

That's all I have on this for now.
GrinchO
Peon
Peon
Posts: 4
Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 11:54

Re: English speaking

Post by GrinchO » 27 Dec 2008, 23:46

pnk wrote:
Krono you are a idiot.

Well I don't agree at all with Krono, but it's not the right way to talk in a forum with rules...

Come on pnk... We all know that you're Razor in the mana world game, it's easy to talk when you're hidding, also when you "never" talk with the right words, that's why you were banned many times...

Razor, you're not in the right way.


I would like to make most soften the rule, but... the GM must understand our point.

Grinch0
pnk
Peon
Peon
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 Dec 2008, 21:24

Re: English speaking

Post by pnk » 28 Dec 2008, 00:11

Never hide my PJ. I speak not in the correct way is subjective. if you are attacking me like they want to react.

How they will react when an attack is free if I am wrong answer based on my speech did not try to divert the discussion on whether "RAZOR is the incarnation of evil" or "all those who speak less than X post must delete"

I will not talk about my pj or the relationship you have with others. For that are the "logs".

I never banned. And call for those who have access to the server to show if this is not so and when that was banned my pj

Free attacks are the reason to own an idiot if that bothers you, talk like a person.

Vive la résistance!

still waiting for some evidence of intelligent life forms...

is not for Quiche_on_a_leash
Locked