Tedium - what to do about it?

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fargris
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Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by fargris » 24 Feb 2009, 08:51

I am now at level 60; all I do is killing things, basically - and one needs to kill a terrible lot of monsters to ascend just one level. I have done my fair share of quests - I've collected 100+ fluffy furs to get the boots and gloves etc; at the moment I am collecting 200 cobalt herbs for another one, and it takes an incredible amount of time, most of which is basically just hanging around while killing mouboos or the like.

I find, as the game progresses, that it becomes less interesting; and I am thinking about what could be done about it. It would be nice if the gameplay allowed a more varied spectrum of activities (ie, not just killing) and perhaps even allowed the players to be creative. How about something like the following:

1. Construction - you go out and find materials and build new maps: buildings, ships, sports arenas, what have you. These maps can then be either exclusive to members of a group or public. Your exp grows by contructing things - completing each element in a map adds some points, completing a whole map adds a lot more. Several people can cooperate.

2. Cookery - you use materials to cook food that can up your stats either temporarily or permanently. These foods can of course be sold, but if you overeat without getting exercise, you become ill in some way. Each time you bake a cake, cook a dish etc, you gain exp. You can run an inn or a bakery, and gain exp and/or money from each customer.

3. Teaching - you take on students or apprentices, and gain from their progress. I'm not how to measure transfer of skills, but perhaps a system where a teacher shares some sort of secrets, and the student sign off in some way?

4. Breeding - you create new monsters in some way inside the game, perhaps by combining aspects of captured monsters. Each monster created gives exp.

5. Hunting - well, somebody has to go and catch monsters alive for the breeding programmes. Capturing monsters alive is more dangerous than killing them, so you gain 10 times exp.

6. Healing - cure diseases with medicines made from herbs etc. Each disease cured gives exp. You can move into a building and run a hospital together with other healers.

7. Repairing - gain exp by repairing damaged equipment

8. Diseases and damages - players can get diseases that will hamper them in some way and will have to be cured by a healer. Equipment can be damaged.

I know, a lot of these things are not new at all and maybe they have been discussed in the past. They are still good ideas IMO - and probably not too difficult to implement. I wouldn't worry too much about IP rights either, these ideas are easy to get simply from observing daily life, and there is no law against that.
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Re: Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by Crush » 24 Feb 2009, 13:13

Regarding construction: The Mana World is not Second Life. When you would like to create maps for TMW you can join our content development IRC channel #tmw-content on irc.freenode.net and we can talk about your ideas. But automatic implementation of user-generated content would lead to uncontrolled growth of the game world which would be detremential for our long-term goal of creating a game world which is well-planned, high-quality and consistent.

Regarding Cookery: I already made a (TMWServ-focused) concept for this on the wiki: http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/User:Crush/Food I would not be offended when you create a counter-proposal.

Regarding Teaching: Needs some more thought before I can give a judgement if it makes sense gameplay-wise or not (most mentor/student systems in MMOs do not).

Regarding Capturing and Breeding: I fail to see the real gameplay benefit in this. Maybe you would like to elaborate in what way it adds to the gameplay?

Regarding diseases, equipment damages and getting rid of these problems: Already planned for TMWServ. I doubt that it would be a very popular addition to the current server because players usually revolt against any change which mean only disadvantages for their characters.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


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fargris
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Re: Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by fargris » 24 Feb 2009, 16:19

So it would appear my ideas weren't too far out :-) I like what you suggest for food.

I don't know Second Life - I'm not really interested in that game (if one can call it a proper game at all). I like the concepts in TMW, the look and feel of it. I am not sure that my idea of in-game construction would lead to uncontrolled growth or lack of balance. The growth could be controlled by making it rather difficult to build a map, or by putting in other limitations - maybe a character can only ever contruct one map of a given size? Materials could be rare, heavy, must be found far away etc. I think it could add several new dimensions of fun - not only would it be interesting to create the map, but it would be interesting for others to explore too.

In fact, the element of discovery is one that I enjoy, probably like most players. That is what I think could come out of the idea of breeding monsters - it might create unknown types of monsters that experienced players would have to get to know; it would be a way to renew that facet of the gameplay. Perhaps it would make more sense if the monsters (and players) were more diverse, so they could have many more ways of attacking or interacting - maybe we could let us inspire by the principles in Crossfire, although I think they have taken it a bit too far.

But what I am really after is variation - sometimes it is nice to just slay monsters, but not always. TMW has a lot of things going for it, but it still caters for too narrow a set of interests, I feel. Take for example the robberies quest - it is nicely non-violent, but it is far too difficult to get on with. You need to find 200 cobalt herbs - the plants are relatively rare, and they only drop leaves fairly infrequently; it has taken me 5 levels to collect 170 leaves. Still, I would like to see more of this kind of play in the game, if only it wasn't going to take so enormously long time to get anywhere. And I would like to see many more landscapes too - some of them are actually quite beautiful and enjoyable to simply move around in.
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Re: Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by feline monstrosity » 24 Feb 2009, 17:43

How about a "dueling" system? Like in WoW you can challenge someone to duel (via a dialog box as with trade offers) and if they accept then the two players are able to attack each other. The duel ends when one person reaches 1 hp or when the two players become too far apart (in case someone just runs away).
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Re: Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by Savi » 24 Feb 2009, 19:50

I use to play another online game before finding TMW. In that game you had things to do besides kill mobs. Although killing mobs was the objective to improve your strength. You had to chop down trees and then make basic items to sell. you could make clubs, stools, chairs and tables. you were improving in lumberjack skills and then carpentry skills. You also had ore to mine, melt and smelt. You had farming where you planted seeds. Seeds would sprout into various foods. There was fishing and cooking where you caught the fish and then cooked them. There was alchemy as well, where you could create your own potions.
With carpentry skills and the use of Ore from mining you could make your weapons or armor. Weapons and Armor would wear out over time so you had to use the ore for repairs.
I have did most of the quests as well and I am no left with killing mobs to gain experience. some quests could be easily implemented. Could be as easy as taking a message from one NPC to another NPC and receive a reward or compensation. Some quests could have a time limit. A quest in the game I played in the past. Example: You kill a bat and would get a slime drop as usual. If you start a NPC quest involving bats then you get a bat fang that you need to return to the NPC and receive something for your effort. Only time the different drop would occur is if you initiated a quest.
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Re: Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by Jaxad0127 » 24 Feb 2009, 20:01

Savi wrote:I use to play another online game before finding TMW. In that game you had things to do besides kill mobs. Although killing mobs was the objective to improve your strength. You had to chop down trees and then make basic items to sell. you could make clubs, stools, chairs and tables. you were improving in lumberjack skills and then carpentry skills. You also had ore to mine, melt and smelt. You had farming where you planted seeds. Seeds would sprout into various foods. There was fishing and cooking where you caught the fish and then cooked them. There was alchemy as well, where you could create your own potions.
With carpentry skills and the use of Ore from mining you could make your weapons or armor. Weapons and Armor would wear out over time so you had to use the ore for repairs.
I have did most of the quests as well and I am no left with killing mobs to gain experience. some quests could be easily implemented. Could be as easy as taking a message from one NPC to another NPC and receive a reward or compensation. Some quests could have a time limit. A quest in the game I played in the past. Example: You kill a bat and would get a slime drop as usual. If you start a NPC quest involving bats then you get a bat fang that you need to return to the NPC and receive something for your effort. Only time the different drop would occur is if you initiated a quest.
The current platform does limit what we can do. We have basic crafting, etc, through NPCs (give them the ingredients and they do it for you). Timed stuff might be difficult on the current server, since it keeps crashing. Drops that only happen during a quest are somewhat possible (they'd enter your inventory directly, bypassing the floor).
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Re: Tedium - what to do about it?

Post by feline monstrosity » 25 Feb 2009, 00:02

Please, let's not be Runescape.
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