From Rip to Redraw

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
pateame

Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by pateame » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:20 pm

Once people know where did graphics come from, is really hard to make a real difference to fake the eye.
You can redraw all and add new textures, but the geometric pattern of the original draw will be there.
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Edited: Thanks Crush for correction! :oops:

But as the house geometry is a present element in most of all desings, it be allowed
(Unless you say everything is a rip from Euclid´s geometry draws).
On this case, the identify element on original draw (the upper part on the roof) was removed to can do a difference between both draws. All the other elements are similars.. most of houses have same structures (door, walls, windows, floor). The sizes, perspective and placement on map makes the real difference I think. It´s just a tile, not a entire map.
Last edited by pateame on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crush
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Crush » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:37 pm

Your new scetches make a critical perspective error: TMW does not use vanishing point perspective. Although it is in the non-visible area of the graphic I would like to correct you nevertheless before you get the idea that the roof has to be changed accordingly.

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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Rotonen » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:18 pm

Len wrote:
jaxad0127 wrote:So, even if you've never seen their work, had it described to you, etc, and you make something similar, you could get sued? Stupid laws.
If you can prove you never had access to the work and somehow made something similar, your safe! But if you used it in the making of your work, even if the finished product is completely different it might be a problem (the world is strange)
In all of our cases the original is in real life (roofs, doors, dunes). In this light being similar shouldn't be too much of a problem if we try to avoid walking as close to the line as the dune does (IMO the dune is ok).

And yes, the perspective is a big issue.
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Balthazaar » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:05 am

IMO I think the roof needs more overhang roofs usually have 2ft or more this looks like it has none and runs right into the walls. I also think the perspective of the hip part of the roof is off the hip portion is way too big. Look up some pictures of hip roofs to see what I'm talking about.
pateame

Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by pateame » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:56 am

The idea of a second floor for houses is great Balthazaar!
I propose a different roof for upper parts (as second floors) to can conserve old roofs as base, and maybe do a balcony for upper parts (to give a propose to the second floor).
What I see is that I will need a flat section on first floor roof to place the base of second floor, so I will need to redraw it all to can make it bigger first. There´s a sketch of second floor idea as I imagine it. (first floor isn´t fixed yet, so everything is a big error at moment)
... or maybe an easier solution without balcony, do walls more longer and set the second floor in middle of base floor
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by octalot » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:45 am

pateame wrote:Once people know where did graphics come from, is really hard to make a real difference to fake the eye.
You can redraw all and add new textures, but the geometric pattern of the original draw will be there.
The grey area above the door still seems to be a direct copy (and mirror) from the ripped tiles.
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Seradest » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:55 pm

pateame wrote:The idea of a second floor for houses is great Balthazaar!
I propose a different roof for upper parts (as second floors) to can conserve old roofs as base, and maybe do a balcony for upper parts (to give a propose to the second floor).
What I see is that I will need a flat section on first floor roof to place the base of second floor, so I will need to redraw it all to can make it bigger first. There´s a sketch of second floor idea as I imagine it. (first floor isn´t fixed yet, so everything is a big error at moment)
... or maybe an easier solution without balcony, do walls more longer and set the second floor in middle of base floor
ImageImage
The stairs havent the same hight.
The Street is to gray and the texture can have more symetric
The at this old desert titleset from the wiki:
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AND the Window is open OK but its not to outside:
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See this is when a window open to the outside
Ande then you can make in the black hole of your open windows ,dark blue glass.
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Len » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:57 pm

Image
I nearly forgot about that concept :mrgreen: (something I might be able to use for WOA)
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Seradest » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:06 pm

Len wrote:Image
I nearly forgot about that concept :mrgreen: (something I might be able to use for WOA)
?
äh is it not so that your graphics from woa dont cant use from us ?
but us use graphics from TMW ?
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Len » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:26 pm

Seradest wrote:
Len wrote:Image
I nearly forgot about that concept :mrgreen: (something I might be able to use for WOA)
?
äh is it not so that your graphics from woa dont cant use from us ?
but us use graphics from TMW ?
I did make them for TMW but never got around to finishing them
(WOE and TMW can use each others art, just the games look very different... so its not likely)
Image
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by pateame » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:02 am

I modify the doors as octalot suggest on original tileset removing the gray upper part,
also I create a tile to can map the 2nd floor and add the glassed window as option.
ImageImage

At the moment I need more to improve graphics, add content (npcs, warps, etc) comes later... but it will take much more time `cause im lazy. Thanks for all support!.
Last edited by pateame on Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by 5t3v3 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:26 pm

For the wall-graphics, the transition from one tile to another could use some work (allign the diagonal boards). Of course diagonal lines are very hard to allign in a repeating pattern, so perhaps you'll have to consider to go with vertical/horizontal tiles alternativly.
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pateame

Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by pateame » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:42 pm

Nice suggestion 5t3v3, it was complicated to align but there´s the result now:
Image

I update again the "testtown map" showed on the map creation example and now looks like this:
There´s the update zip with the modification on tilesets & .TMX file:
[+] test-map.zip 9db91660

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Now Im thinking that town need more curves, maybe adding pots for the trees, or details as curves on the fence wall borders. If the walls tile will be "squares", maybe changing more geometry could seem better.

Just today I see this past work of mruk.... im just amazed :shock:
http://mruk.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/bl ... leset-004/
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Saphy » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:32 am

Len wrote:
jaxad0127 wrote:So, even if you've never seen their work, had it described to you, etc, and you make something similar, you could get sued? Stupid laws.
If you can prove you never had access to the work and somehow made something similar, your safe! But if you used it in the making of your work, even if the finished product is completely different it might be a problem (the world is strange)
Indeed, all the prosecutor need to do is the get a copy of this thread (or a google mirror whatever) to show that it is indeed a derivative of copyrighted work. It is much safer to use real life object for reference, and don't look at the copyrighted work as soon as you start drawing.
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Re: From Rip to Redraw

Post by Jetryl » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:04 am

Honestly, although you obviously don't want to use it for final, released work, rip + replace is one of the best ways to start learning from a dead start. Sprite art, and the related job in drawing buildings, of "picking architectural decorations" to design buildings with, is really hard, especially if you have no experience doing it. In fact for most beginners, it's basically not hard, it's impossible. Right up there with sprouting wings and learning to fly.

Rip + replace makes it much, much more approachable, since you can do practice on spriting basics, and have the really difficult parts pre-solved for you. You can't legally use it for any released projects like TMW, but then, knowing that it's your first work, it's probably not going to be that great anyways, so you can treat it as practice. More importantly than anything else, the success at having something that's not soul-crushingly embarassing to show for your efforts keeps you motivated to move onto stuff that is actually totally original. Rather than giving up and never learning to sprite.


Rip+replace is basically a form of the ages-old practice of "studying from the masters". Don't use it for real work, but do use it for practice - it's very effective at that.
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