another musician

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saturn
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another musician

Post by saturn » 13 Apr 2009, 02:14

There seem to be several contributors popping up. This is a good thing :) I would also like to contribute music to this game. Here are a few examples of songs I've made for other open source projects:

some orchestral pieces -
http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... /examples/

some electronic pieces -
http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... _examples/

I'm not sure entirely what is needed, but I would like to make some songs for the game, and those links showcase some of my abilities.
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 13 Apr 2009, 18:29

I made a song with Mana World specifically in mind. It sounds very RPG, like music for a village/town.

http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... net2.1.ogg

It loops once by the way. Tell me what you think!
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Re: another musician

Post by Rotonen » 13 Apr 2009, 19:14

Welcome aboard.

If you can work at that pace to produce that quality of end result on your own, you should work independently and produce nice generic pieces like that (of which we're currently in a desperate need) for a while and we'll direct you from there if you happen to strike gold.
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 13 Apr 2009, 19:57

Ok! I'll make more songs in that style (orchestral/RPG-y), and I'll post them here. What does it take to commit/submit songs?
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 13 Apr 2009, 20:12

Unless that was sarcasm - if so, critique would be more constructive.
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Re: another musician

Post by Cosmostrator » 14 Apr 2009, 02:56

Rotonen isn't sarcastic, he's Finnish :mrgreen:
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 14 Apr 2009, 04:07

Sorry, I interpreted two ways.

I wrote another song, in one of my favorite styles, which I believe would also fit certain areas of the game. It isn't quite finished in that transitions need a tad of work, and the notes aren't all quantized correctly (velocity and duration/spacing), but have a looksee -

http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... order2.ogg
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Re: another musician

Post by Rotonen » 14 Apr 2009, 20:56

Good going.

Keep the pace up.

If you want to tie yourself into this project for a longer period of time, read the post linked here first and then the rest of the post:

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 066#p14066

I might have been a bit too optimistic about that three years ago, I admit. We never got a stable composer who would stick around, we never got any of the scores: only the finished renditions and our backstory and world development almost completely stalled. As of now we have no one working on that.

If you want to start such a project I've been dreaming about, I have some kind of an idea of at least what kinds of areas are going to be in the game:
  • Desert
    Savannah
    Forest
    Swamp
    Sea/islands
    Tundra/arctic
    Caves
    Highlands/mountains
    Cities, towns and villages for such areas
Generally refer to http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Geography

With my math this would amount to 8 main themes, 3 variations to accommodate the city/town/village split and cross arrangements for at least:
  • Savannah/Forest(Jungle?)
    Desert/Savannah
    Forest(Jungle?)/Swamp
    Tundra/Forest
    Forest/Highlands
    Coastal areas
I'm not sure about how we'll need subvariations with these, but I guess by the time we get there, the big picture will hopefully be clarified a bit.

Summa summarum: 30+ pieces to be done for a full soundtrack.

And yes, this does not include the "special places" mentioned in the old post, because they don't exist yet.

Also the offer for big band / choir / brass / modern renditions still stands if you're willing to share the scores in the spirit of open source.

So far we don't have any guidelines, suggestions or ideas for in which format the scores should be shared. MIDI and/or PDF should work.

On top of this, do listen to the soundtrack we have now and bring up anything you detest and want to replace. I'm quite sure there is a plentitude of such pieces. (At least the cave theme I do want to keep.) You may rewrite from scratch or just redo on top of the old piece (your rendering quality seems to surpass most of the contributions we've received so far).

And for a quite sad and thin read in the end of the day if you want to dig deeper into the world we're trying to create here:

http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/ ... ualisation
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 15 Apr 2009, 01:03

I would very much like to become a part of The Mana World project! I have been waiting for a long time to write music for an awesome open source RPG. I will certainly dedicate a lot of time into this, and will certainly stick around for a long time, if my songs are satisfactory.

I will try my best to write music based on those locations. Though, there is still lots of variety within locations. For example, forest music can represent a dark spooky-er forest, or a nice mellow charming forest. So far, I have only been in the desert area (I have a lvl 22). So if you have specific ideas about how a place should sound like, please let me know and I will try my best to write something like that.

I read the thread on desert music, and have made two tracks with panpipes, guitar, and simple percussion. I am not all too familiar with Latin music, so one is very much in "my style," but I think would work well. The other, I tried to write with a more Latin feel. The songs are here -

http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... ketch1.ogg
http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... ketch2.ogg

I read that you have access to a University big band. What is the instrumentation of it? (currently, or in general, I know people probably come and go). I would definitely like to try writing a Mana piece for them.

I have only heard the songs at the beginning of the game, where else can I find TMW songs? (is the current soundtrack listed anywhere?) And I like what I've heard, though the desert music does not fit entirely, it could certainly be used elsewhere.

Anyways, tell me what you think of my desert sketches, and if they are good, I will finish them. I will make a few more sketches the next few days, and on the weekend.
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Re: another musician

Post by Rotonen » 15 Apr 2009, 01:21

Sketch 2 would be much more in the direction I'm looking for. Sketch 1 is more like a generic TV / cheap movie kind of "hey let's make a musical medieval intro fill" piece.

I know what we have to work with here is really vague and what is described here will not be the final truth. We are still pre-alpha, after all. Stumbling in the dark can lead into stumbling onto treasures, I'd like to think.

http://www.polyteknikkojenorkesteri.fi/?sivu=english

The page does not tell too much, but 100+ instruments in full concert readiness each year, instruments varying, sometimes greatly. Basically from what I've understood they'll play just about anything upon request. There is a plenitude of other musical groups on the campus for other kinds of needs too if we want to start such cooperative projects. I guess composing for a full orchestra would be kind of ambitious of a pilot project.

If you want a pilot project, in my opinion one of the campus choirs could be a good starting point. One of them actually already has contributed something for an open source game: http://performous.org/ ! (The song playing in the testing mode, performed by Oxetti. Incidentally one of the devs of that project, Tronic, is a board member of the virtual gaming culture advancement society (Polygame ry) of our campus. I happen to be the chairman of the board of the aforementioned society.)

The music you can find where you installed your client. *client*/data/music/

Anyway, to summarize: really glad to hear that. :)
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 15 Apr 2009, 02:11

Ok, I will try to make that second song better, and then add a bit to it.

In the meantime, I dug up an old forest song for a project that never got off the ground. Tell me what you think -

http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... ketch1.ogg

My own opinion is that certain areas need more work, and the reverb should be cut down a bit, but I like the feel of it.
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Re: another musician

Post by dariunas » 15 Apr 2009, 02:49

Really like this. Sounds very forest-like. Really like the way the instruments 'interact' - Like unseen animals of the forest, really puts your mind in the environment.

Of course it's not my call, but if it were up to me, would put this as the main forest area and re-assign the current one to something else. Of course, if there is a more relaxing 'forest' environment and a more combat-oriented one, would be good to use this in the more relaxed area.

I really like the fact you've used environmental sounds. Sound quality of them is good, but I can't give a very reliable critique on their implentation as my left ear is blocked up at the moment :\ Maybe spread them in the stereo field a little more and vary the volume on each of them a little more and maybe pitch adjustment and even increase reverb on the sound and drop it's level a touch to make them sound further away) just an idea.

Music itself is excellent. Tasteful composition and great ambience (reminded me a little of Wind Waker the first time you enter the wood and fight a couple of goblins). 8)
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 15 Apr 2009, 23:14

Thanks on your comments for forestsketch! I actually didn't notice until you mentioned it, but all the ambient noise is panned to the left. I will pan it around, and give it a little bit of reverb. Other than that, it is mostly done, maybe a few tweaks here and there.

I wrote another sketch today, for mountain music. I envision mountains with timpani, brass, and some strings/woodwinds for flavor, but basically epic-sounding. I wrote a piece with such instrumentation, it didn't turn out perfectly, but it is the basic sound I'm going for -

http://alokinnollahwe.com/randommusic/m ... ketch1.ogg

Suggestions on how to make this better would be great, I think the idea has potential, but is not executed terribly well.
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Re: another musician

Post by saturn » 15 Apr 2009, 23:39

I found the music currently in the game (is the place you told me to look), and I think that it is good. Here is my thoughts on each piece.

The Mana World - The Forest
I really like the parts with guitar, and percussion. The woodwinds are nice too. Ironically the only part I don't like too much is the main riff, which is fine for a while but gets repetitive. Still, good song. As for fitting a forest, I'd have to hear it in-game.

Clouds Calling
This song is nice. Some of the synths are not too nice, but the main pad and some percussion is very nice. Some of the percussion is not of the best samples. This is the most interesting piece in that it is not classical, but electronic, and I think that this may be a good thing, to add variety but still fit in. Still not sure about how the overall soundtrack should be in the end. Fantasy games, like FF for example, have been known to use a combination of classical and more electronic sounding songs (even the more "Fantasy" FF's like 9 and 12 use lots of electronic songs).

Faith
Very pretty, but not really desert music. As the name suggests, it sounds more of a theme for a church or maybe even a castle.

finalman_and_yakslem-cavesong
Like Clouds Calling, this is very nice, and I like the use of electronic music in the game too. Also like Clouds Calling though, some of the synths are not too great. The leads and percussion is very nice, but the background riff (some sort of analog lead) could be better.

Hurnscald
This is very pretty. Works as menu music, but sounds more like village music to me. Like The Forest, the part I dislike most is the repeated riff, which is fine for an intro but I don't think should be repeated the whole time.

Snow Village
Definitely village music, very nice. The chimes give it that winter feel, and as does the plucked bass.


So overall, you have some pretty good songs in-game already! The only problems I see are a bit too much repetition here and there, some not-so-good samples here and there, and some songs that don't quite match (but are still good and might be used elsewhere).

I am definitely ready to add to the soundtrack, and as my sketches come and go, your critiques will help guide me in a good direction.
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Re: another musician

Post by dariunas » 16 Apr 2009, 00:47

lol You have a well tuned good ear for the musical intentions in a piece of music. Hurnscald was actually designed in mind as village music, but seemed to be used as menu music (I assume as a placeholder). Yes, those Cellos do get a little repetitive actually...

You've picked the main flaw with these and I think it afflicts Snow Village as well... I may re-visit these tracksas they share this common bugbear of a repeating pattern which could do with more variance. I guess I intended to use the element to 'bind' the common elements of the track together before going back and implementing variety in the repetitions, but I guess lazyness got the better of me in the end! Will post revised versions once I've done some FX work :)

Would love to hear a sketch of a short menu track? That way, Hurnscald would retain its identity as a village track more coherently as well. I'm jumping in here randomly as I usually do, so not sure if Rotonen or Crush would agree with a dedicated title track, but I think it would be pretty cool to have a little one.

mountainsketch1 - Something that just came to mind is that from 50secs onward, the instrumentation and grandeur of the track is probably the kinda thing I would have aimed for when composing a 'castle theme'.

- After 8 seconds, would calm down the Timps a little bit, (try out having them a little less or maybe just volume?) and let those horns shine a little bit more. < might not be a good suggestion, but try it out. The timps are the perfect introduction for the track though and the track builds nicely as a player may scale mountainous areas.
- I really liked the integration of environmental sounds in the track for your forest sketch. Mild wind or crumbling rock sounds would be great (the rock ones would be a bit tricky to sound right in-game, but might work...[/list]

Think this ones shaping up nicely. :wink:
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