The Mana World Forums

<rant>

I lurk around the forum time by time, and I need to rant here about some stuff

First of all, shut the hell up with "This is not a discussion forum!" in that Court House forum. What are you guys trying to do? Stop them from saying something? Stop them from questioning something? Censorship much? Stop preventing them from saying what they want to say. I don't see why it would hurt to have some kind of discussion in the Court House forum. You guys are just being VERY silly, I see it in almost EVERY thread

This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread
This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread
This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread
This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread

I'm not surprised why some of players left, what are you guys, STUPID? You guys need to chill and let people say what they want to say. Freedom of speech FTW.

Second of all, LOL are you serious? Someone made a game name "plynpom" and it gets banned? Or deleted, I forgot and couldn't care any more to check but anyway, you guys got all butthurt because someone used the name "plynpom"? That's hilarious man, I've never seen something like this in any MMO game ever.

</rant>

But other than that, hello ;] hope everybody is doing good.

For the "Court House" forum, I believe that could be replaced by a atuomatic system in PHP that sends a email with the content of the reporter. This, for example, could work well with the TMWServ, as it contains the email information and may send a email notifying them about it, before coming to discuss around here, and get a bigger forum database.

For the "plynpom" issue, I don't mind that. Because plynpom is the sexual male orgarn, worse would be said Cock or alike. Also, who knows? Maybe plynpom is a name in other countries

It still all boils down to their server, their rules. Lots of people didn't like it.. so they left? There's still plenty around.

I don't mind any of the issues you brought up either, but complaining isn't going to get anything done.

z0ro wrote: First of all, shut the hell up with "This is not a discussion forum!" in that Court House forum. What are you guys trying to do? Stop them from saying something? Stop them from questioning something? Censorship much? Stop preventing them from saying what they want to say. I don't see why it would hurt to have some kind of discussion in the Court House forum. You guys are just being VERY silly, I see it in almost EVERY thread

This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread
This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread
This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread
This is not a discussion forum! /locks the thread

I'm not surprised why some of players left, what are you guys, STUPID? You guys need to chill and let people say what they want to say. Freedom of speech FTW.

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=5118

Alxe wrote:For the "Court House" forum, I believe that could be replaced by a atuomatic system in PHP that sends a email with the content of the reporter. This, for example, could work well with the TMWServ, as it contains the email information and may send a email notifying them about it, before coming to discuss around here, and get a bigger forum database.

Emails are hashed in the TMWServ DB for safety.

compare this: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=5118

Platyna wrote:This forum is made for a sole purpose of fast, efficient, and transparent way to deal with abuse and to protect honest players.

and this: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=6548

doorsman wrote:As I said, no explanations will be given, but the GMs and Devs will get some.

.. btw: why posting a screenshot with no information in it?

jaxad0127 wrote:http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=5118

And pray tell what this is supposed to mean? Have you read those rules? I've never seen that process done in that section of the forums. Rules say "irrelevant input" is to be removed/stopped, but instead, all input is removed and stopped.

It's a picture gallery and the name "court house" is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

kinwa wrote:.. btw: why posting a screenshot with no information in it?

To preserve the pretend-transparency of course. Funny thing is that this ban never would've happened if someone actually answered reports about trolling/spamming which is now becoming a huge issue in the game.

So, the transparent way of dealing with things is telling people what's it all about. If you want players to follow the rules, make the GMs follow them first.

Not all input is deleted? I've seen quite a few that they've let stick around because it had to do with the case. I guess they're just tightening the screws since more and more people are starting to make irrelevant posts in the Court House.

And I thought I saw somewhere that GM's don't need to provide a screenshot.

melkior wrote: To preserve the pretend-transparency of course. Funny thing is that this ban never would've happened if someone actually answered reports about trolling/spamming which is now becoming a huge issue in the game.

So, the transparent way of dealing with things is telling people what's it all about. If you want players to follow the rules, make the GMs follow them first.

Agreed. The trolling and the spamming have gotten worse, not better. We have GMs who refuse to answer calls for GM duties *you know who you are, as I have a screen shot of you telling me to 'go report it, I am not going to bother with it'*

What we need are people who still care about the game to GM and not those who choose to sit invisible all the time (yet another abuse of the power) in a flower patch and ignore players who need them. Too many things have gone unchecked and are ruining the game.

We have HOURS and HOURS when there is no appearnt GM online or one who is willing to answer the calls. Everyday, from about 11am-4pm (pacific standard time) there is hardly ever a GM online...what are we supposed to do if something happens? We need people who can commit to the job...

Not that this will be listened to...bet this topic gets locked soon...like usual

Dy

Goku wrote:And I thought I saw somewhere that GM's don't need to provide a screenshot.

If that is the case, then those rules have no right stating anything about transparency.

My point is, there needs to be a single set of rules that cannot have alternative interpretations. And everyone should follow them, GMs and players alike.

The issue here was quoting the rules because a player broke them, but no one is allowed to quote them when a GM breaks them.

Do we need two sets of rules then?

Which rule are you referring too?

And i'm not disagreeing here. I haven't seen any GM's who've refused to help out, but I have noticed that at times there aren't any on at all. Everyone has a life outside of TMW but sometimes when they are here, they really aren't.. if that makes any sense.

The supposed purpose of that forum - read the post at the link Jax posted. Not saying anything is hardly being transparent.

And yes, sometimes you have a GM online but it's like he's not there. Not to mention that the majority of the 24 hours go without any GM presence whatsoever.

I'm not sure what the point of this discussion really is. What do you expect to be done about this? Do you know any person that you would be willing to "commit to the job of GM" and at the same time you would trust with that job? It is extremely hard to find people who are both motivated to be a GM and and can be trusted not to mess it up. Even our current GMs, who I know are doing their best, are constantly subject to complaints. Do the complaining people think they can do better?

Let's try to think about solutions instead. One thing we could do is to define a process by which the GMs are chosen by the community. Interested people can apply and would have to do some kind of campaign to convince people they will be a good GM. Then people can vote, and anybody who get a certain amount of positive votes can become a GM for a certain amount of time. When this period is over, votes are taken again. Is that an idea? Of course a lot of details will have to be figured out, but I fully trust the most vocal people here won't have any problems helping out.

Anyway other suggestions are welcome too, of course. One problem with elections is that most of the people who say they want to be a GM are the least suitable for the job.

Another solution I could think of is to start charging money for the game, so that we'd have some resources that could "motivate" people to commitment. Of course that is particularly nasty since that would introduce all kind of responsibilities to the developers, who are really just enjoying their hobby curently. Not to mention all the legal issues we could get into.

The point of this discussion is that we need a better set of rules. Ones that are clearly defined and that all the GMs should follow. In the same manner, without any room for personal interpretation.

That would be a first good step.

Secondly, the GMs have a lot to do, too much even. Not all the GMs have to have the same level. Have lower level GMs to act as IRC channel operators in towns, to deal with the trolling and players not speaking English. They wouldn't need to wave a banstick. @kill or @kick would do.

Let them strip their GM status when they feel like it. I believe you'd find more trusted people willing to help if they had "shifts" of sorts.

And I'd be glad to help out with any of the details if someone actually lets me. But then again, most voices here fall on deaf ears from what I've seen. Let GMs be nominated instead of them applying for the job if you're going to roll with that system.

And to answer your question, would I do this job better? No, not on the current terms because, I repeat, not enough GMs. If the GMs had a certain time-frame to commit to (not every day of course, we all have lives), yes, I'm sure I'd do a better job, but so would every other GM out there. On another hand, I've noticed a certain clique mentality with the devs/admins/whatevers here, so maybe snapping out of that would open more GM places.

Meh, I could continue to rant but it won't help the situation.

z0ro wrote: Second of all, LOL are you serious? Someone made a game name "plynpom" and it gets banned? Or deleted, I forgot and couldn't care any more to check but anyway, you guys got all butthurt because someone used the name "plynpom"? That's hilarious man, I've never seen something like this in any MMO game ever.

That player wasn't banned because his name was plynpom, but because he behaved the way he did. His behaviour wasn't really made better by his name, though.
If someone is called plynpom and doesn't do any wrong, there is no need for banning them.
It seems to me that I shouldn't have banned him just BECAUSE he was called plynpom...
However, there was no need for banning the char "plynpom is back", since he didn't do anything besides standing around.

kinwa wrote:compare this: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=5118

Platyna wrote:This forum is made for a sole purpose of fast, efficient, and transparent way to deal with abuse and to protect honest players.

and this: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=6548

doorsman wrote:As I said, no explanations will be given, but the GMs and Devs will get some.

.. btw: why posting a screenshot with no information in it?

I don't know what that was about...As MK said: we'll have to look into this....

melkior wrote:
To preserve the pretend-transparency of course. Funny thing is that this ban never would've happened if someone actually answered reports about trolling/spamming which is now becoming a huge issue in the game.

All we can say about that would be: We'll see what we can do. The thing is that we're only really able to act when we're whitnessing the respective abuse.

So, the transparent way of dealing with things is telling people what's it all about. If you want players to follow the rules, make the GMs follow them first.

Agreed.

Dyna wrote:

melkior wrote: The trolling and the spamming have gotten worse, not better. We have GMs who refuse to answer calls for GM duties *you know who you are, as I have a screen shot of you telling me to 'go report it, I am not going to bother with it'*

What we need are people who still care about the game to GM and not those who choose to sit invisible all the time (yet another abuse of the power) in a flower patch and ignore players who need them. Too many things have gone unchecked and are ruining the game.

We have HOURS and HOURS when there is no appearnt GM online or one who is willing to answer the calls. Everyday, from about 11am-4pm (pacific standard time) there is hardly ever a GM online...what are we supposed to do if something happens? We need people who can commit to the job...

melkior wrote: And yes, sometimes you have a GM online but it's like he's not there. Not to mention that the majority of the 24 hours go without any GM presence whatsoever.

Being online all the time is impossible. Most of us do have a real life.
Earlier, when there was only one GM, I don't think she was online more than once a week (correct me when I'm wrong). At least I hardly ever saw her.
Btw, I think your 11am-4pm is the time when most GMs are online.
Imo, a much bigger problem is not haveing a GM from the Australian time zones (or something). [/quote]

Not that this will be listened to...bet this topic gets locked soon...like usual

Dy

This topic won't get closed.
1. This IS a discussion forum.
2. No GM is a moderator here.

melkior wrote:

Goku wrote:And I thought I saw somewhere that GM's don't need to provide a screenshot.

If that is the case, then those rules have no right stating anything about transparency.

We needn't provide screenshots, since they are no real evidence. Which doesn't mean I don't want to post screenshots. The gm-log is some kind of tranceparency....but, well...it always depends on the way you log something....

My point is, there needs to be a single set of rules that cannot have alternative interpretations. And everyone should follow them, GMs and players alike.

Good idea. We also had that. The only problem is time... (and a very very long text that nobody wants to read....)

[/quote]The issue here was quoting the rules because a player broke them, but no one is allowed to quote them when a GM breaks them.

Do we need two sets of rules then?[/quote]

That's not true. We agreed few days ago that people may question a GM's decisions. Dunno if that's the way all GMs keep it.

There are two sets of rules. In the GM guidelines - though only in the discussion - Lack of time...
http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/ ... Guidelines

....

melkior wrote:If the GMs had a certain time-frame to commit to (not every day of course, we all have lives).

A certain time frame is already kind of there, because we have GMs from the Americas and from Europe (and missing some from Australia etc.). But we already tried to agree on shifts, but that's impossible, since you would still have to put the GMing above you real life. ...It's a hobby and not our work.clear
However, it would be really good if there was someone who'd be willing to write a (good and) tranceparent set of rules.

I'd GM but I believe the community is currently poisoned.
I would not let any community vote on who becomes a GM happen, at all, ever.
The people that shout the loudest aren't the best.

And people that go about taking matters in to their own hands need to stop doing so.
I used to do that back in the day when officially there was no need for moderation in game, but that time has past.

You think the whole "This isn't a discussion forum" line is censorship?
How about this then people:
Yes it is.
You act like a bunch of 12 year olds in a school playground, you deserve it.
And in most cases there should be no need for anyone else to be involved, this isn't a fricken soap opera - grow a pair and leave the involved parties alone.

Interesting fact: I care far too much.

http://tmwc.110mb.com/manabay/