Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Wombat » Mon May 04, 2009 5:36 pm

Hey Crush, if he's going to attack me with his comments, I'm going to respond. I think it is counter productive to promote this "deputy" idea for the entire game unless there is proof that the botting problem is so out of control that something like this would have to be put in place.

As it stands there really isn't a huge botting problem to reduce because the GMs are doing an effective job in keeping them down. The only problem is the continual return of botters to locations that ensure their existence and I support your idea of changing of the map to reduce the potential of botting.

These help chat features are interesting. I think a /botlog [character name] could be used to alert GMs of name, time, map and coordinates of someone a player may suspect is a bot and it would record on a page similar to the GM log, but only GMs and Devs would have access to it. Should there be a GM on duty, they can move in to check the suspected bot with all recorded info they need instead of having to have a back and forth with characters about where and when a suspected bot is. Should they be off, they can compare the time to other botlog times and if they need another GM to fit a timeframe, the botlog would help them understand if such a response is necessary. It could also help devs understand if they need to change how monsters spawn at certain locations easier to prevent a problem from occuring.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Jumpy » Mon May 04, 2009 6:16 pm

hi

Sorry i really cannot come to the solution you are refering too.

why

imagine XXXX asks you for a rare
pleazeee
pleazzzzee
pleaz
pleassseee
(so i don't get ban)
you say no several times
you even say i'll have to report you if you go on like this
you even take time to explain

he says ok goes away and comes back
pleazeee
pleazzzzee
pleaz

you report XXXX by a /wGMbeggin XXXX he begs for rare got a screenshot of this begger ! !

and then GM goes and talk to this XXXX

and then XXXX follows you and take screenshots (as you had him on ignore :lol: ) you don't even know he is talking to you 8)

conclusion
GM have 10 reports on you botting because you don't see what he says...

so come on

poor GMs with 1 hours per day reading messages of reportings and 3 hours going from one to another to see what is all about...

when a team works you don't change it

i say again no to botters (of course)
i say again no to deputies (no meaning of their existence)
i say again no to report people on a systematical basis of delation.

no delation but yes education, information, and good GM work as they already do.

automate messages when someone is apparentely botting (not mooving and attaking) send a log to GM they'll go for this botter... send of course a message to that person too with an alert saying that he gets no more xp from his hits...

oh would that be an idea...

willing to see what you think about this

and of course random the spawn on the spots around the map like: on monday this sea slime spot has 4 slimes on tuesday 2 on wednesday 7 and so on ;)

Dev have a lot of work nowdays i imagine as they are finishing 0.29 and much more i imagine. Just hope they read this and think about it.

I'd love to go to irc to talk about those things but 1. i am not a dev. :oops: 2. i am french (joke no offense received) :mrgreen:

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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Goku » Mon May 04, 2009 8:57 pm

First of all Mr.Wombat, i'd like you to take a look at the past posts and see who started the name calling and unnecessary comments or as you like to call it "attacking".

It's also counter productive for you to turn down everyone's opinion. Keep calling me a cry baby and posting your "boo hoo" comments cause in no way am I doing that. I'm just supporting the ideas I like.. do you see me begging? "Please oh please put this in place now, we have to or it'll be the end of the world!" Uhm..i'll let you think about it.. no.

If you don't like the idea that's fine. You don't need to tell everyone how stupid they are, how stupid the idea is, how lame they would be for wanting this system in place, etc. Btw, lame? lame ass? Seriously? Gotta catch up with time my friend.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Wombat » Mon May 04, 2009 9:08 pm

I've actually gone bot hunting in the past several days and found only one suspicion of botting and reported them. You think this "deputy" idea is good? How about you explain why it is necessary? I don't want this deputy idea to come around because I see it becoming more of a problem than the minor annoyance botters create.

How about my idea of /botlog? Wouldn't that work as a preventative better than deputies? The GMs and the devs would benefit and nobody new has to be added unless the botlog had a high case of reported bot suspicions when GMs weren't in the game. I don't see a reason for another role to be added to the game and I am going to continue being firmly against it.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Goku » Mon May 04, 2009 9:14 pm

And that's during the time you play.. don't tell me you're on this game 24/7 because I know you're not. Maybe that's why it's not such an annoyance to you? And I never said there were hundreds of botters out there or that it's such a huge problem that we need to do something asap. But again.. this thread was made to come up with ideas. Who knows when or if any of them will ever be implemented into the game.. but ideas never hurt. And yes I still think the deputy idea is a good one. It could work in a similar way as yours.

I think it could work just as well. Both are good ideas and some things from each can be taken. Looks like you took my advice of trying to come up with an idea.. I think i'm going to cry.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Jumpy » Mon May 04, 2009 9:15 pm

well seems to be a post only between you 2...

...

very constructive
...
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Goku » Mon May 04, 2009 9:20 pm

We have been argueing, but if you read them we have also been discussing ideas. Feel free to join.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Wombat » Mon May 04, 2009 9:21 pm

Goku, if it is such a problem, why don't you report them? Take screenshots to log the time. I'd believe the deputy idea would have more merit if players were already taking the initiative to give a reason for something like the deputy idea. Right now, I do play at all times of the game, maybe not 24/7, but often enough throughout the day to run into more than one bot suspicion if they were more than a minor annoyance. Maybe you could qualify botters higher in some sort of way if you don't agree they are simply a minor problem?
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Goku » Mon May 04, 2009 9:25 pm

I have talked with certain GM's of certain botting times. I just don't report them in the Court House. What's the use of that? GM's must catch them in the act anyway. And I agree that they aren't a major problem.., but can I get a "yet"?
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Wombat » Mon May 04, 2009 9:53 pm

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with "yet". I prefer to think suggestions should be based on what has occurred and what is occurring. They were a worse problem last year and it has significantly improved. Also because devs and GMs both seem to want to change how spawning occurs to reduce botting, I'm pretty sure they will become less and less of a problem instead of more. This doesn't mean they will or won't become more of a problem if new maps are added, GMs become less and less available without adding more to their roster or if changing the spawn rates as they currently exist has little effect.

I would agree more with "yet" if we have an active gaming community of 1000+ playing at one time. Whenever a new role is added to games or real life, rarely is there a withdrawal of the role. Rather, roles often gets more powers as time passes, making me skeptical when there isn't a current need of them and why I am a current opponent until there seems to be a need for it.

Botting would have to be overwhelming the GMs enough that they would feel a need for an expansion and I would think they would announce such an expansion if all things fail to reduce botting.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Goku » Mon May 04, 2009 10:23 pm

I also don't see how any of the other ideas would hurt.. but I do agree with you there. I hope the changing of spawn points does come soon. That will put an end to a lot of the botting going on and make the game more enjoyable.

I also see what you're saying here.. and don't really wanna bring it up anymore, but the Deputy position would not be a joke. It's not like they would just promote anyone to the position. And maybe only 2 or 3 would be added and everything you take into account for choosing a GM you would do here. The people who have chosen the current GM's have done a pretty good job. No abuse of power, etc.

Anyways, maybe there are better ideas than the deputy one and you've come up with a few so nice job.. still thinking about the /botlog one and hope the dev's would consider it. Also like I said before I hope spawn points will be changed soon.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by jeto » Wed May 06, 2009 10:29 pm

Uhm, a idea i thinked when i made some jokes..

"Skull, if i were you, i would run now."
Why don't skulls run away when they are low on heal? STUPID skulls!


but this could actualy be a anti-bot thing. Make monsters try run..botters wont run after them.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Jumpy » Wed May 06, 2009 10:32 pm

great idea :)
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by Fern » Wed May 20, 2009 7:55 pm

I just wanted to give my opinion about bots...

I think that if playing a game is so tiresome for many people that they prefer to let a machine play the game instead of playing it themselves for leveling then the problem is not the machine, the problem is the gameplay.

Probably the only way to get rid of bots it to make them unnecessary. Make the importance of experience points be much less relevant to the gameplay than the importance of REAL experience playing the game, there should be more important to be a "skilled player" than to have a "skilled character".

I think that the objective of a game is to enjoy. The people who are using the server resources should be there to enjoy each byte they use, not to waste bandwidth by eagerly seeking to be the strongest, thinking only in fighting and leveling up as much as they can.

Maybe the effort should be put on improving the battle system instead of wasting time on hunting bots. Monsters should have more abilities than just hitting. The battle could be turn to be more tactical, make some monster inmune to some weapons and much weaker to other.. give them attacks that reduce the strength/defense or any other attributes of the player temporarily, create some BOSS monsters.. have some clever monster combination in some areas (ie. monsters that heal others + high-defense monsters)...

Also, give big quantities of experience from quests.. make it possible to level up to the top by just finishing quests. Like for example.. killing one special hard-to-find monster in a labyrinth (and I mean one, not hundreds). Visit several times from one town to the other delivering messages between different NPC (acting like a postman), after X deliveries you finish the quest and get some prize.

Create more minigames that can be enjoyable to play with other players, and don't make it hard for newcomers to level up to the top level for finding this minigames (I've still not found some nice places that some people told me just because I'm not high level enough and I don't want to spend my time leveling like crazy). There could be a lot of gamemodes suitable.. races, board games which can be played pushing rocks in the scenery.. sokoban-like games, switches that have to be pressed in certain order... simon-like games, zelda-like puzzles in some dungeons, etc.

Make it easy to reach the top level and when it is reached there should still be BOSSES that won't give you experience but that would be nice to fight in a party with friends. Maybe making them drop special items.

Improve role-playing. There should be at least one server that doesn't ban you if you insult someone, people are supposed to roleplay, the characters are not real and any real-life conversation shouldn't be in public chat... if someone is offended by other person in public then this should be treated as a offense in the roleplaying world, not as a real-life insult. I think that moderators should not moderate. If there's really needed some "cops" in the game, they should be roleplaying players too.. soldiers from the king.. messengers from the gods.. perhaps get the player to a prison, instead of banning them. and allow people to go visit the prison and pay for releasing a prisoner, if the amount is not set high. I don't think that a serious real cop/soldier/god would really care about a peasant that just said "f*ck". Instead, there could be some other rules that enhance the role-playing factor like... make it be unlawful to be a member of a group of "rebels" that is also created in the world.
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Re: Can We Reduce "Botting" ?

Post by meway » Wed May 20, 2009 8:13 pm

keep in mind this game is still in development although your ideas are appreciated there are other topic areas to post your ideas like the ones above
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