Magic System(hmm, sometihngs wrong here)

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
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Rotonen
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Post by Rotonen » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:29 am

I was mainly thinking abuout pvp usage.
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Crush
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Post by Crush » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:17 am

how about an explosion skill like in the early FF games which kills the caster and deals damage depending on the remaining HP of the caster.
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Post by psycorama » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:45 am

Rotonen wrote:I was mainly thinking abuout pvp usage.
The spell could be limited to work on monsters only...


And what if the "Doom" spell would cost all Mana Points of the caster.?
And i mean all like in maximun spell points, not just the remaining.
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Post by Talaroc » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:39 pm

psycorama wrote:And what if the "Doom" spell would cost all Mana Points of the caster.?
And i mean all like in maximun spell points, not just the remaining.
One larger mana potion would negate that.

There are some things that are just too powerful to be compensated by making it cost more. Bear in mind you are talking about, essentially, the ultimate combat spell here. I think, depending on what death penalties are decided upon, that the spell killing both the target and the caster would be sufficient to balance it out.
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Post by Modanung » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:01 pm

I think penalties like taking 1/4 of the players max health, all MP and freezing MP for 60 seconds would be a pretty good casting cost for some very destructive spells.
Maybe the spell would deal max_health*max_mp damage? Instant death spells are bad I think.
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Post by criptos » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:32 pm

Near dead spells, should be near dead experience to the spellcaster...

That?s what karma says :)
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Post by Degraine » Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:47 pm

The Grand List of Console Role Playing Game Cliches, item #76:

Magical Inequality Theorem
'In the course of your travels you may find useful-sounding spells such as Petrify, Silence, and Instant Death. However, you will end up never using these spells in combat because a) all ordinary enemies can be killed with a few normal attacks, making fancy attacks unneccessary, b) all bosses and other stronger-than-average monsters are immune to those effects so there's no point in using them for long fights where they'd actually come in handy, and c) the spells usually don't work anyway.'


I think this demonstrates the problems with death-spells. By the time you can use them, what developer is going to let monsters at that level be struck down by a single insta-death spell?
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Post by Jetryl » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:43 am

Insta-death spells, if they actually work on everything, basically negate all the bosses in the game. This is why they don't, in fact, work on everything, in most games, and the shame is that by the time the player manages to achieve the spell, he can cast a weaker spell only a few times and kill most monsters for a much lower cost in mana/whatever.

One escape route I've seen is through simply making the "kill" spell a very-high-damage-dealing spell which few creatures have resistance to, as was done in the game Exile. However, this brings up claims of "false advertising, since it does not in fact "kill" everything.


I just say ... avoid them like the plague. It's easier.
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Post by xand » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:00 pm

I really think Degraine makes a point here. (Usefullness)
I'd say we get something more unique and special than those Silence/Insta.. Spells.

A pro is though: I esecially like Final Fanatsy and there some enemies were
pretty weak against Insta-Death or some other Status changing spells.
There were 2 or three anemies of the same kind who died on Insta-Death
regardless of their HP. They had many HP but were kinda easy and repetitive.
But Insta death got rid on them fery fast. (Although I have to say that mostly I
was above avererage level so maybe thats the cause for my high success rates :P )
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Post by Degraine » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 pm

Just had a thought now about how to make Death spells a little more useful. If you have played City of Heroes (raise your hands) you've heard of Defiance, a Blaster innate ability that raises the amount of damage they do as their HP drops.

So how about a portion of a Death spell's chance of success being based on how much HP the caster has left? It probably shouldn't become a certainty if you get down to 1% HP, but it could contribute something, to make those desperate battles a little more tense.
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re

Post by Bear » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:33 am

Well, iv been out a while, and thought about this. Just like the idea above, why not make it so that the cast chance is your Lost HP? like.... if i have 99% of my HP, it has a 1% chance of casting.... vice versa....

Also why not make it a type of finishing skill.... such as.... dealing high ammounts of damage or dealing MULTIPLE status effects :D

Iv always been annoyed by that. But i think it would be good seeing that more ppl would wait til they only have about 25% or less to use it.
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Post by Modanung » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:58 pm

Or something like: ((100/own_HP%) * (target_maxHP/2))+LVL

Then with full health you'd damage the monster for half his maxHP. With 1% HP or less you'd kill the monster, no matter how healthy he is. This spell should cost a lot of MP though.
Adding your level to the damage is mainly so you kill weak creatures with it. It would be a bit lame if you'd deal 3 damage to a maggot when you're level 153. :)

But maybe the HP-dependent part could be abused.
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Post by allievo » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:34 pm

Greetings,

I am new to the forum but decided to join when I read this conversation. So, hi everyone!

Something that I find great about my favorite game Guild Wars is the Exhaustion system. Powerful spells such as "Meteor"/"Meteor Shower"/"Chain Lightning" and so on causes exhaustion, and by doing so annihilates the point in using multiple powerful spells.

For those who have not played Guild Wars, exhaustion is simply a reduction of your maximum mana. Of course, the mana is not permanently removed, it slowly goes back up again (Although much slower than the mana regeneration rate).

This system might work pretty well for TMW, but I have not played it enough to tell. Perhaps you do not like this solution, but I thought that I should post it as a proposal.

Good luck with the development!
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Post by Bear » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:15 am

that solution is ok, however this is a skill that KILLS the monster >.> not severely damages it. Take that into consideration. I think there should NOT be a skill capable of killing ANY monster with 1 hit, including weak monsters to stronger ones.
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Post by allievo » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:13 pm

Bear:
Please read what people has been discussing, and especially Modanung's last post, it does not have to fully kill anything that easily. If there is going to be a spell like this, the dependencies mentioned would be needed, and therefore the spell would not be over-powered.

Still, I do not understand why you even want a spell like this in the game, I think that it would be ok for it to deal a lot of damage, but the amounts that has been discussed here are way too high for my taste. It would simply remove other tactics, in a way.
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