auto-ban / censorship

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.
Forum rules
This forum is for feature requests, content changes additions, anything not a Bug in the software.
Please report all bugs on the Support Forums
User avatar
Superkoop
Novice
Novice
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:09 am
Location: South Dakota in the US of A
Contact:

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Superkoop » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:41 pm

While it won't stop everyone, it will act as at least a short wall. Something is better than nothing, and I know it is a pretty easy thing to do.
I agree.
We have the rule, it should at least be attempted to be enforced better. It doesn't need to be a perfect censor, but something that hits at least the most common crude words.
I also agree that small children shouldn't be on the Internet at all, unless watched closely by their parents. Furthermore, the parents should talk it over with their children as well, and teach them these things.
Nevertheless, there is the rule, it should be enforced better. I don't think banning is a good idea, but just censoring and warning should be sufficient. The reasoning for this should not be a fix all, or total prevention, but rather an attempt to enforce a rule.
In game I am Xaru
On forums I am Superkoop
IRL I am John
-View World map-
User avatar
Jumpy
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 611
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:31 am
Location: Somewhere on Earth between an Ocean and a Blue Sea

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Jumpy » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Superkoop wrote:
Nevertheless, there is the rule, it should be enforced better. I don't think banning is a good idea, but just censoring and warning should be sufficient. The reasoning for this should not be a fix all, or total prevention, but rather an attempt to enforce a rule.
seems to me a good idea. Banning is no solution.

it's going to be fun to build the the bad words in so many langages :) :lol: and there is a very good tool that can help: launchpad

Regards
DBMP - BMS - HFDI
Don't Bring Me Problems - Bring Me Solution
and Have Fun Doing It : P

lvl 99 89 56 51 47 42 7
User avatar
Jaxad0127
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 4209
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:35 pm
Location: Internet

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Jaxad0127 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:45 pm

It's still very easy to get around censoring. Arte you going to search for any instance of banned words in the string and get "****o" instead of "hello"? Or are you going to only search full words and let "blah<bad word>blah" pass? What about misspellings? 1337? Unicode?

I'd rather do a system where players report chat lines.
Image
User avatar
Black Don
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:30 pm

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Black Don » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:50 am

Does anyone remember when autoban was first put in place for spamming and it banned every person who typed anything in the chat window?
"Too much of a good thing is an awesome thing, but too much of an awesome thing is, um, really really dumb. And bad." Strong Bad
User avatar
Wombat
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:31 pm

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Wombat » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:09 am

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5596
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3343
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =12&t=6428
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?t=3271

Court House also discusses many cases of abusive language in the game. Most of the time, it seems the rules are applied more to issues of excessive use of language. People get frustrated and just because a naughty word is used, there is a desire to create a ban by a foe of the player or someone is spiteful and wants to use the rules to take down their foe.

However, this topic is about filtering the language (which is covered in one or two of the links provided above). This would remove some of the gray area reports in the Court House and prevent characters from generating a ban, but it would also encourage people to find ways around the filter. Also, curse words aren't that bad of a problem in real life nor on the internet. I don't see a reason to make a deal about it. Hundreds of millions, if not billions of children are exposed to curse words throughout their early lives. Why do we pretend that this can be hidden? Why is Judeo-Christian morality imposed on others when it comes to language? Not everyone shares your values on child rearing and this argument rarely is about just any individual seeing a bad word...for some odd reason adults can handle this language, but think of the children. Bah Humbug!

I think using the "ignore" feature would work best for language we don't want to see. I'm not babysitting anyone's kids in this game.
Current character is "Abolish".
User avatar
DonCBen
Novice
Novice
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by DonCBen » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:08 am

Like some others have stated above, it's not going to be a fix all. And for the most part, these day of everyone and their dogs learning computer code, there may not ever be fix alls again in our lives. But a speed bump, a small obstacle in the way so that it isn't so very very blatant and easy. Besides, devs, did you write those rules at the beginning of the game because it's what you believe in, or was it just talking to talk with no intention of backing it up. The only thing I see you guys enforce is botting and "this is not a discussion forum" [locked]
"Flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - Douglas Adams

warrior char: Donnie B.
mage char: D. Camaro
User avatar
Wombat
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:31 pm

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Wombat » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:18 am

DonCBen wrote:Like some others have stated above, it's not going to be a fix all. And for the most part, these day of everyone and their dogs learning computer code, there may not ever be fix alls again in our lives. But a speed bump, a small obstacle in the way so that it isn't so very very blatant and easy. Besides, devs, did you write those rules at the beginning of the game because it's what you believe in, or was it just talking to talk with no intention of backing it up. The only thing I see you guys enforce is botting and "this is not a discussion forum" [locked]
You mean the GMs "enforce". The rules were established to prevent blatant abuses. Otherwise GMs would ban honest, yet frustrated characters that cuss out those that scam them, steal their kills, troll them etc. There are many shades of gray that make an absolute rule on swearing both a problem and a potential tool to be used by underhanded assholes that provoke people into a ban report.
Current character is "Abolish".
knulfine
Peon
Peon
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:05 am

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by knulfine » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:58 pm

Wombat wrote: However, this topic is about filtering the language (which is covered in one or two of the links provided above).
False.
This topic is about getting any solution. The header are the two possibilties I thought about.

In the meantime, by reading here and thinking more about it, I get why censoring is no solution.
but ban is I think. Even if it's no autoban.
For example:
Calling a GM.
GM talks to the person (language problems get someone who is bilingual)
GM goes away
GM comes back invisible to see if a change really happened.
If not, ban.
Just as an idea...

In Chats you get kicked for some words. I know this is a game and no chat but I think this thing could be dealt with.

And I see the "children-thing" is not to be discussed which is annoying but no problem -> adults. I am an adult and don't like it when people spam there .... trollish.... waste. And it can't be the great solution to ignore everyone who does so. Has the ignore list a limit? I don't know. But even if not, it can't be the way to deal with that everytime.
You say "no begging" to a beggar and with some luck the beggar stops for a while.
But those trollwastespammers are just there to show everyone how stupid they are. You say "please leave me alone" they continue. You say "stop your spamming" they continue. You say "go away" they continue. Then you go away, 'cause you are sick of it and often the spammer follows you, or whispers or or... then you ignore him or her... so we are at the beginning...

Am I the only one who is really tired of that?

We have some rules and rules have to be taken serious. So why can't there be a way to enforce it?
Is it to much work? Ok, make me a gm, I go around and look for those trolls ;) *joke*
I think you know...
It is a problem...
John P
Novice
Novice
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:55 am

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by John P » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:40 pm

Most of the suggestions here are 'respond to act' and allow those to suffer the act, as opposed to act prevention.

Yes, people can get around language filters. Then, we can 'respond to act' because with the filter there is no gray area: the person that went around the filter intentionally abused an in place system.

Someone also suggested in the chat that the filter be client side so people can add their own words as they see them (over and above the initial list).

Sure it might take a little bit of thought to adding words (ie don't block the words hell or ass, or just block them with a space character before and after). And it might require some editing after problems testing finds errors (this is still a beta as I recall, it doesn't have to be 100% perfect on first introduction).

On top of that, many filters in other games have substitution words (which might be harder), but they tend to be catchy and fun. People end up using the substituted words on purpose because they are unique to the game. If anyone watched Firefly, that show used substituted words and the fans began using them as well. Its just fun.
User avatar
Fern
Peon
Peon
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:58 am

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Fern » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:00 am

John P wrote:Someone also suggested in the chat that the filter be client side so people can add their own words as they see them (over and above the initial list).
I think that that's the best solution. Client side and optional (perhaps even disabled by default). Parents can establish control if they wish so, the way they wish and as much as they wish. Without disturbing the rest of the people.

Also, this solves the problems regarding insults in other languages. If your kids don't know Spanish then you don't need to add Spanish words.. if they do then you can add them.

However, I also think that this is a roleplaying game and it's not a safe IM chat. No matter what we do, kids can get bad companies even without a single insult... tthey can get pissed off or can get their feelings hurt without any explicit abuse that's not worth a ban. And I think that that's part of the game, and part of life that we all have to learn. Children can't be protected that way... the best way to protect them is to warn them and talk to them first before someone else does talk to them the wrong way.

I even think that the abuse rule and the only-english rule should be removed. Because it's not something that can be controlled and... it's a roleplaying game after all.

This game can be a nice training field to teach kids what life is about. A tool for teaching them that they can't trust strangers, but that there are also friends that they can trust. Just go find some friend for your kid if you think he won't be able to. And warn him/her about strangers.
User avatar
Wombat
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:31 pm

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by Wombat » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:45 am

Practice some self responsibility and use the ignore feature. It really is that easy. Why do you have such a problem putting annoying people on ignore? As for the kids, I want feathers to tickle the monsters if we are going to play "protect the children". This protect the children argument is tired and stupid. Raise your own children in real life and leave the rest of us alone. Use some self responsibility instead of restricting everyone else because you have some issue about how other people are raising theirs.
Current character is "Abolish".
knulfine
Peon
Peon
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:05 am

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by knulfine » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:59 am

knulfine wrote: And I see the "children-thing" is not to be discussed which is annoying but no problem
....
We have some rules and rules have to be taken serious. So why can't there be a way to enforce it?
...
I said it yesterday in the IRC. Delete the rule and everything is ok. No complaints anymore, because it's no rule anymore.
But as I see this leads to nothing. I'll shut up now, 'cause I am the only one who wants a solution and alone I can do exactly nothing.

Live long and prosper
User avatar
CapitanAwesome
Novice
Novice
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: Everywhere... In the shadows... Waiting...
Contact:

Re: auto-ban / censorship

Post by CapitanAwesome » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:45 pm

what a parent exposes their children to is a choice, so why not make it a choice in game as well, if its not going to be a big job, could we add an "opt in" language filter so...

"FUCKOFF" would become "****OFF"

'hell' isnt offensive (IMHO) so words like "hello" shouldn't be affected.

/me throws 2c in.

Cappy =)
CapitanAwesome - Game Master - server.themanaworld.org
Post Reply