Price of Death!

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adamaix
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by adamaix » 19 Jul 2009, 07:27

Hmm, all these idea ... I have an idea
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Jumpy
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Jumpy » 21 Jul 2009, 01:59

what idea you have ? :D

willing to reed it :)

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Re: Price of Death!

Post by otacke » 26 Jul 2009, 14:31

I really like the "collecting herbs for the ferryman" idea.

Maybe weaker players up to level x could just be resurrected the way it is today - the god's have pity on them.

As of level x, you would either have to obtain (make or buy) some "death prevention" stuff. Might be a good additional feature of life stones?! You could then automatically pay with this item and start at a menhir stone. If you can't pay, you'd have to do the ferryman thing.
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Rotonen » 26 Jul 2009, 19:07

Let's not design annoyances, ok?
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by John P » 26 Jul 2009, 19:21

you have to pm rotonen with your list of favorite things and he has to respond to you with his before you can leave the underworld
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Savi » 27 Jul 2009, 18:46

When you die now and sent back to the Mehnir stone you come alive with half of your HP level. If you sit or use heal it goes back to full level. If an underworld was implemented when you die you go there and can't leave until your HP is back to full. In the underworld magic would not work and the only place that you could heal would be the inside of a certain building.
Once your level is at full you see the NPC that lets you go back to the last mehnir stone. At least this delay in training and killing is a minor inconvenience and nothing lost.

If I spelled the stone's name wrong, sorry can't pull the game up at work.
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Darkfangex » 29 Jul 2009, 01:33

you know what demonoid , you sound like you would like the death penalty to be like that stupid ass game tibia , forget it! xp penalty my anus at level 70 it probably takes 30 santa slimes to get 1 exp , so if i die i may have to kill 30-90 santa slimes to get back to where i was , screw that , a simple 1/3 money loss is better , money does not seem to be a problem in this game. its so simple , you loose money because ppl(or spirits) or something had to revive you and bring you back to the stone , if i got knocked out in real life in a fight i don't loose experience , i actually GAIN , i don't know how in hell a crappy idea like loosing xp every death came past you , maybe too much tibia , all my friends said F>U>C>K tibia because of xp loss, so you are saying if a noob tried was walking through the desert , and that 1 black scorpion came along and killed him he looses xp , what the hell is that , or maybe those damn 2 skulls when left unattended and noobs who cant kill them run around the place , those frigging skulls wait at the door , so if i go in im dead , how the hell was i supposed to see that coming even worse i lost xp because i did not know a skull was going to be there when i entered , this would suck bad for archers , especially in the run to jack O , expect alot of xp loss :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by ville-v » 01 Aug 2009, 13:43

Gouki wrote:Maybe we should concentrate on maps,NPCs and items first. Such things are details (maybe not such a lil detail) which can be edited later.
Death penalty is not a small detail. It is a huge detail. Death penalty is one of the main features that define what kind of community will form in game, according to Daedalus Project ( http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/ ). The following player thinks games with hard death penalty are bad and TMW is good:
Darkfangex wrote:you know what demonoid , you sound like you would like the death penalty to be like that stupid ass game tibia , forget it! xp penalty my anus at level 70 it probably takes 30 santa slimes to get 1 exp , so if i die i may have to kill 30-90 santa slimes to get back to where i was , screw that , a simple 1/3 money loss is better , money does not seem to be a problem in this game. its so simple , you loose money because ppl(or spirits) or something had to revive you and bring you back to the stone , if i got knocked out in real life in a fight i don't loose experience , i actually GAIN , i don't know how in hell a crappy idea like loosing xp every death came past you , maybe too much tibia , all my friends said F>U>C>K tibia because of xp loss, so you are saying if a noob tried was walking through the desert , and that 1 black scorpion came along and killed him he looses xp , what the hell is that , or maybe those damn 2 skulls when left unattended and noobs who cant kill them run around the place , those frigging skulls wait at the door , so if i go in im dead , how the hell was i supposed to see that coming even worse i lost xp because i did not know a skull was going to be there when i entered , this would suck bad for archers , especially in the run to jack O , expect alot of xp loss :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
According to a Daedalus Project article, "Social architectures in MMOs" ( http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archive ... php?page=1 ), harder death penalty makes MMO community tighter and wipes out players who are immature or lack patience:
People would sit in front of their computers for hours, waiting for a cleric to come to their zone and rez them, because they knew they'd have to play for days to make up for the massive amount of Xp loss if they didn't bother with the rez. [F, 39]

And a comparison with more recent MMOs like WoW shows just how different dying has become.

In subsequent games, I have found it absolutely does not matter if I die. Really, who cares about some repair bills and some dread, or decreased experience gain for a short time? Running naked after your corpse in a dungeon? Potentially losing all your equipment if your corpse decayed or losing a level? That was a penalty. [M, 31]

Death is a Bonding Experience

Many players commented that the severe death penalty intensified social interactions, especially altruistic actions. Helping someone avoid death wasn’t simply a symbolic gesture; it might help the other person avoid losing hours of work and then spending more time recover their corpse. As such, many players thought of death as a bonding experience.

The severe death penalty in EQ did help players form a close bond with each other, no one wanted to have friends die, lose levels and couldn't complete quests together. [F, 39]
On the other hand, I think something like maze would be really annoying for afterlife, since it has nothing to do with death, but is simply a punishment. It would be more logical if you simply dropped items (and maybe "experience ball" only you can pick up) and you would have to run for your corpse with your friends before it will disappear.

I think "maze penalty" would be effective in driving new players away, since is it equal for everybody. If loss was items or experience, it would be easier to regain for new players, whose level is low and who don't know anything about the game. Radu Privantu, Eternal Lands developer, has experience about this ( http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorp ... /part1.php ):
In September, we finally had combat! With the combat finally there, we had to add some new skills (combat, attack and defence). We also had the ability for a few NPCs to train the user, but only after finishing some quests. Without training, it was almost impossible to stand a chance even against rabbits. This was a big mistake, many new players came in the game, attacked rabbits, died, went to the underworld, got stuck in there, and, of course, quitted the game. Eventually I had to change the starting stats and give the players stronger attributes by default, so they can stand a chance prior to finishing those quests. With the addition of combat, we started to have more players online. The growth was pretty fast actually. Before September we had around 5-10 players logged in at the same time, and by the end of September we had over 25, and in November we had over 50.
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by jclarkin » 17 Aug 2009, 18:38

Some games just keep track of "Number of times died" per character.

Value ranges could be attributed to "Achievement" recognition once the player is above a certain Level.

E.g. After Level 50
0-10 deaths: Legendary Survivor
....
500+ deaths: Monster Fodder
??? Profit!
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by ??? Profit! » 17 Aug 2009, 19:07

Ok, I have an idea. Not related to this topic, though.

Many games have a thing like Teleportation Spell which helps travelling in the game world. I propose that there could be one available in Mana World, too, as the game world is getting bigger and bigger and travelling takes a lot of time. Ok, anyways, there should be a player stat called Hitpoints which shows how much energy you have to gain before the Teleportation Spell will be automatically thrown. Basically, when the Hitpoint stat reaches zero, you will throw the spell. Your spell absorbs power from the hits of the enemies. Of course, people want to go to a specific location Therefore, there should be some sort of teleportation points (magical rocks maybe) across the world which people need to touch to activate it. Next time your spell is thrown, you will be teleported to that location. The enemies might charge the spell up, even though the player doesn't want to teleport so there could be some items which discharge the spell. These items could be bought from shops or gained from the enemy drops. This spell could also favour the beginner players... They could have less Hitpoints than veteran players so it is easier to charge the spell.

:)

Some games just keep track of "Number of times died" per character.

Value ranges could be attributed to "Achievement" recognition once the player is above a certain Level.

E.g. After Level 50
0-10 deaths: Legendary Survivor
....
500+ deaths: Monster Fodder
Huh, so if you die a lot as a noob, your Achievements will look bad forever?
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by jclarkin » 17 Aug 2009, 20:48

Good point ??? Profit!. We don't want to punish new players, unnecessarily.
Just means we'd need to carefully tweak those Title Ranges.
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Ceros » 25 Aug 2009, 19:35

IMO, a death penalty encourages players to always be meek and play defensively. You wouldn't see players dieing and then running into the skull caves, half health, to help finish killing the skulls that are attacking their friends. You'd see people grinding on lower powered monsters because they wanted to 'play it safe'. Having a death penalty (or one that is above trivial) doesn't fit in with the spirit of the game, either. besides that, resources are better spent ondeveloping other things.
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by InspectorShameless » 25 Aug 2009, 20:57

[EDIT]
Last edited by InspectorShameless on 25 Oct 2009, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Jumpy » 26 Aug 2009, 05:54

idea

why not a penalty in the maximum vit stat ?

the more you die, the less vitality status you get ej

0-50 deaths maximum vit is your stat vit divided by 1 to not have a high panalty on newcomers
51 to 75 deaths maximum vit is vitality you had when you died * 0.75
75 to 100 deaths maximum vit is vitality you had when you died * 0.50 and so on

this would be a kind of teaching method to oblige people to train and run and heal when needed
avoid the suicide to go back in town and so on

BUT

imho

the underworld, the realm of death is very important in terms of content to created the spirit of tmw and bring it to life (storyline and so on as nobody reads the wiki it would help to have a consitant an permanent way to get into tmw word creation and gods and quest history etc etc)

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Re: Price of Death!

Post by Crush » 26 Aug 2009, 13:00

A permanent, unrecoverable penalty for dying is simply too harsh.
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