ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Getafix » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:30 am

I'd suggest a better anti botting idea is that if you stand over a same tile for X time limit, you receive a warning first. Then if you do not move off withing X seconds, the server autokicks you, implying this on the basic hunting places, for example, mines, mountains and wherever the people bot.

I'm not talking that it should be applied everywhere, just some places where there is chance of finding a bot. Towns and main areas where people are afk.
Sometimes, it is better to forgive your foes, this annoys them the most.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Crush » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:32 am

Sure, with enough effort you can create an AI which plays every game as good as a human player. See chess computers or that bot which can beat rogue (very comnplex, very dynamic text-based single player RPG).

The goal here is not to make botting completely impossible. It is about making efficient botting a bit more complex than weighting down two keys and also making the game more interesting while doing so.

Sorry for repeating myself but some people don't seem to read what I am writing.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Getafix » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:05 am

I did read what you wrote, but I simply disagree with what Habari wanted to say.
A complete new combat system, that too very complicated is not a very good thing to do.
So I thought that auto-server-kick-bot would be a good
Sometimes, it is better to forgive your foes, this annoys them the most.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Cotillion » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:20 pm

Crush wrote:The goal here is not to make botting completely impossible. It is about making efficient botting a bit more complex than weighting down two keys and also making the game more interesting while doing so.
+1 Crush
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I hate [evil] bots :)

Post by t3st3r » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:16 pm

Getafix wrote:I'd suggest a better anti botting idea is that if you stand over a same tile for X time limit, you receive a warning first.
As far as I know it appears someone already created automation which can actually walk over map and kill what it encounters rather than just stand on some place.
Then if you do not move off withing X seconds, the server autokicks you
And you will get a bunch of angry form topics like "Why I have been kicked?!". Just as it happens with auto-ban for spam :twisted:.

All this means that large gains should only be available via doing quite challenging and non-trivial things which can't be automated easily. And small gains ... it just should take "almost forever" to level up high-level chars this way (with bot or manually, who cares). Will you wait for a month while bot levels you up by killing (safe) maggots? Or you'll get same result for some hours of fighting in challenging and tricky conditions where you can get killed easily but also can gain a proper reward?

Actually, more challenge in game is a good idea on it's own. Killing a ton of similar monsters without challenge and chances to die, just to level up is a boring routine work which requires no thinking. That's does not provides fun. That's probably also works as driving force for botters. If it's reduced, botting going to reduce as well I guess (just because it not provides large gains in non-challenging scenarios and automating fights in challenging conditions is a non-trivial task). This also almost does not requires coding, it's rather about tweaking monsters and players parameters to keep game quite challenging and non trivial (and hence not boring) most of time.

+1 Crush, I guess.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Rotonen » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:32 pm

You're free to fork the project and prove us wrong on this.

For now we're not going to invest our resources on this.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by drewtoma » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:34 pm

If it was better implemented it may work but im kindof dyslexic and may confuse some. But good idea. :mrgreen:
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Anonymous!!! » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:33 am

fate wrote:Hi,
[*] Moving around slows down fatigue increase
-- fate
Shouldn't that speed up increase fatigue? :?
Because a bot could be programmed to walk continuously to attack the monster.
It would also mean bots targeting flowers and other stationaries will move about and use the bug where flowers wont hit you.

Maybe an anti-botting way would be not to beat them but join them...
I know what your thinking, your thinking :shock:
But think if there was a patrol bot set to break other bots coding and make them think it is their master.
The bot can constantly walk around using a 'secret' chat tab which acts like a global announcement none can see and wont get him banned for spam or anything.
He can constantly say things like "!heal" and if there is an immediate reply of a healing spell etc. he warps to the location of the instant reply and uses @wgm command to say something like "@wgm BOT_scan log: Player [Suspects name] is responding to [Command he said (in this case !heal)] at [Map co-ordinance]

Maybe also he can give a scan for if any player is healing or attacking etc. on a certain command.

So for example:
(BotCheck Tab)
[6:22] BOTcheck: !heal
[6:22] BOTcheck: heal
[6:22] Checking for on command activity
[6:22] BOTcheck: !attack

etc.

He could do this once every 10 mins or so?
That way he wouldn't flood the server with his scanning.

Also a @bot command would send him a message.
The message must be something like @bot [Suspected Bot's name] at [Mao co-ordinance]

if the message is different from the set one he can say something like:

Command must be: @bot [Suspected Bot's name] at [Mao co-ordinance]

Also the GM's can set him.

Example:

If the GM tells him: !scan he enters botscan procedure
!warp [Co-ordinance]
!come: Will warp to the GM
!follow Follows GM
!friendly [Name] Adds a friendly bot which it will ignore

Stuff like that.

It would take a lot of work but it probably would still have some failures and escaping bots.

:|

I once tried making a BOTcheck bot for my server.
I also once tested a botcheck like that in another computer game.
There were a few fails where the bots were programmed to stop botting, say afk and sit down when they sensed a scan.

Maybe it could work... only maybe though :P
(Yes it is a bit crazy but in the old version of The 25 Worlds game it worked)
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by iceslice » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:12 pm

The formal way to detect a bot is to apply the Turing Test.
A bot checker (BC) option is already developed (by 4144) but problem is it's client based. If it were server based or clients' infos are shared to the server, we could detect Mr. respectful botter from the server. When the bot checker detects a prospective botter, the server may send a captcha picture containing distorted letters to him/her. Player may be asked something like "type the letter(s) accurately or get an appropriate punishment".
Botter may avoid it with the usage of an OCR but still his/her life would be way more harder.
It would make everything automated releasing pressure from GMs.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Jaxad0127 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:48 pm

iceslice wrote:The formal way to detect a bot is to apply the Turing Test.
A bot checker (BC) option is already developed (by 4144) but problem is it's client based. If it were server based or clients' infos are shared to the server, we could detect Mr. respectful botter from the server. When the bot checker detects a prospective botter, the server may send a captcha picture containing distorted letters to him/her. Player may be asked something like "type the letter(s) accurately or get an appropriate punishment".
Botter may avoid it with the usage of an OCR but still his/her life would be way more harder.
It would make everything automated releasing pressure from GMs.
We've gone over this so many times in the past, it's not funny. That would too greatly drag down the play for legitimate players. Think about it. How would you like to be playing along fine, only to get a CAPTCHA pop-up when you're trying to fight? Let's try not to make the game harder for legitimate players.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by daemonowner » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:58 am

replying to Jaxad: Perhaps it doesn't have to be a pop-up, maybe just a whisper in a tab saying "correctly send this message back or face the consequences..."
and as it always has been they would have 2mins to respond or get banned for botting.
if your are not botting and you respond incorrectly then it would alert you and give you another chance
Just trying to help
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Jaxad0127 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:46 am

daemonowner wrote:replying to Jaxad: Perhaps it doesn't have to be a pop-up, maybe just a whisper in a tab saying "correctly send this message back or face the consequences..."
and as it always has been they would have 2mins to respond or get banned for botting.
if your are not botting and you respond incorrectly then it would alert you and give you another chance
Just trying to help
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And that is blindingly simple to automate.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by Crush » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:58 pm

And also is more likely to cause a ton of false alarms because people don't spot the whisper or just fail to understand it.
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by meeps » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:29 pm

*simply recolor a bat
*call it something like king bat
*make it nearly as tough as jack-O but none aggressive (but give crappy exp and bad drops)
*have one of them spawn in each bat cave
*say good bye to simple weighted and macro bots

for more complicated bots higher GM presences and stricter punishment should do
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Re: ANTI - BOTTING IDEA ......... NEW COMBAT SYSTEM

Post by DarkWater » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:52 pm

Fatigue is a great idea, coming from the person that can not fix magic, this does not surprise me.

It is really clear that NO ONE in this thread as attempted to play the game.

Let me handle your fatigue problem.

You create 9 characters.

You start 3 of them botting.

You sit the other 4.

After the first hour. You sit (turn off) the bot number 1. And turn on bot number 4.

After the next hour you turn off bot number 2, turn off bot number 5.

After another hour you turn off bot number 3 and turn on bot number 6.

After another hour you turn off bot number 4 turn on bot number 7.

After another hour you turn off bot number 5, turn on bot number 8.

After another hour you turn off bot number 6, turn on bot number 9.

After another hour you turn off bot number 7, and turn on bot number 1.

Rise and repeat.


I mean swear to god. That is not hard.

What it seem you want to make is a system in which playing the game is a pain in the ass for players, and makes sure you do not stop any botting.

Have you guys played the game? Do you understand that even if you give anyone a "break" they just log in to another account and continue on?

Do you understand that even if fatigue hit after an hour (with a 24hour break), you would just need 24 characters to do the same that one does. And to a machine, logging in and out is not going to slow it down.

All it will do is just collect for an hour, then transfer to the next character the items, and bot for an hour, rise and repeat.

So where is the slow down, besides being a total pain the ass to the normal player, where does the fatigue system work?

If you want to stop crime, you have alot of police and a tiered system of punishments.

You DO NOT build, robocop/terminators child to enforce rules.

The fatigue system is like the magic system, created to benefit the rich, while punishing the poor.

The rich in this case is people with programming skills and time. The poor, like magic, is everyone else.

IF you want to stop the botters. Make a clear and precise set of rules, and enforce them with a legend of gm's.

WOW, I have seen some crack head ideas before...

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