a new skull

All development of pixel art and graphics
nmaligec
Novice
Novice
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:55 am

Re: a new skull

Post by nmaligec » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:36 pm

re idea of 'last stage' of reaper: I think it sounds interesting to have a skull version after defeating the reaper. It can be done right now, but the spawn position would be hardcoded (probably to the center of the room). The question really is: will it be anti-clamactic to fight some more after just defeating what you 'thought' was the final boss? Maybe it has only a few thousand hp but does LOTS of damage. Kinda like a kamikaze mode to take down as many players as it can before it goes.

re getting mob coordinates: There is currently no way to affect a specific mob through scripts. This means you cannot get or set mob locations. A lot of other potentially cool things also can't be done without script control.
User avatar
Reid
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 10:39 pm
Location: Artis
Contact:

Re: a new skull

Post by Reid » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:01 pm

nmaligec wrote:re idea of 'last stage' of reaper: I think it sounds interesting to have a skull version after defeating the reaper. It can be done right now, but the spawn position would be hardcoded (probably to the center of the room). The question really is: will it be anti-clamactic to fight some more after just defeating what you 'thought' was the final boss? Maybe it has only a few thousand hp but does LOTS of damage. Kinda like a kamikaze mode to take down as many players as it can before it goes.

re getting mob coordinates: There is currently no way to affect a specific mob through scripts. This means you cannot get or set mob locations. A lot of other potentially cool things also can't be done without script control.
Doing them explosing as old bee? but with less damage O.O
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
-- Ford Prefect
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: a new skull

Post by WildX » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:12 pm

Reid wrote:
nmaligec wrote:re idea of 'last stage' of reaper: I think it sounds interesting to have a skull version after defeating the reaper. It can be done right now, but the spawn position would be hardcoded (probably to the center of the room). The question really is: will it be anti-clamactic to fight some more after just defeating what you 'thought' was the final boss? Maybe it has only a few thousand hp but does LOTS of damage. Kinda like a kamikaze mode to take down as many players as it can before it goes.

re getting mob coordinates: There is currently no way to affect a specific mob through scripts. This means you cannot get or set mob locations. A lot of other potentially cool things also can't be done without script control.
Doing them explosing as old bee? but with less damage O.O
Maybe you must kill it before it explodes to get a "special extra drop" or something like that...
User avatar
Alige
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Weed Island

Re: a new skull

Post by Alige » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:37 pm

Nice ideas here... I think that it can turns in multiple "easy" new skulls. This makes us have less things to do because be won't need location anymore. By "easy" I mean like the other skulls but with a nice special attack it could be cool... like really, really fast but not a lot of damage.
Image
nmaligec
Novice
Novice
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:55 am

Re: a new skull

Post by nmaligec » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:23 pm

lien: I just noticed a few things about the skull sheet.

The forward final death frame, frame #10, seems to have the top (right most) part of the skull cut off.

You use multiple frames for the same image, just moved up or down a few pixels: ie 0-2, 3-4, (5-8 are the attack frames), and 10-12 (just in the facing down sequence). It is better to do vertical/horizontal offsets in the xml file and save on spritesheet size.
Instead have 1 frame for 0-2 and 1 frame for 3-4. Then in the xml have

Code: Select all

<animation direction="down">
    <frame index="0" delay="300" />
    <frame index="0" delay="300" offsetY="-1" />
    <frame index="1" delay="300" />
    <frame index="1" delay="300" offsetY="-1" />
    ...
</animation>
To be even more efficient cut out the shadow and add it in as a separate layer. See the way the bat does it. To keep the shadow changing alpha as the skull gets closer to the ground, I would add a few frames to the shadow spritesheet with differing amounts of alpha and synch up the frames in skull_shadow.xml with the skull.xml.

I would strongly suggest keeping the attack as part of the spritesheet and not doing it as a separate particle. The image dying system allows for more than one color to be independently dyeable. So for the image you use in the skull's xml file you can have: skull.png|W;R then in monsters.xml you can give the W channel the skull colour and the R channel the attack colour (just make sure you pixeled the skull part in grays and the attack in reds). IMHO this would be much easier to work with than a particle and spritesheet combo.
User avatar
lien
Novice
Novice
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:59 am
Location: France

Re: a new skull

Post by lien » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:47 pm

xml here
here


(little changing place of dead frame)
Image :wink:


nmaligec: for the R channel for do the attack: i think there is a difference btw poison and fire for example and the particle who i have done, are for <particlefx> (in monster.xml) but about when it's die, the animation can be by XML that'll make the sprite more little.
To be even more efficient cut out the shadow and add it in as a separate layer. See the way the bat does it. To keep the shadow changing alpha as the skull gets closer to the ground, I would add a few frames to the shadow spritesheet with differing amounts of alpha and synch up the frames in skull_shadow.xml with the skull.xml.
you are saying I should do the shadow in an accesories and do an "offsetY="-x" "like the butterfly ?
Image
nmaligec
Novice
Novice
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:55 am

Re: a new skull

Post by nmaligec » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:41 pm

Ok you are right, the attacks have to be unique.

Well this means you can compress frames 3-8 into just 1 and use xml to get the positioning during walk and attack actions (I just noticed there is some horizontal movement as well as vertical).

As to particle vs sprite sheet: You would get more control over it by hand pixeling the attack in a sprite sheet. Also by making them dyeable, you leave open the possibility to use it for diff attacks and even combinations of them in diff colours layered on top of each other.

Question: would a sprite sheet approach be more processor friendly, as compared to using many particles to achieve the same result??

So I suggest splitting the attack off onto a separate sprite sheet, 1 for each diff attack (fire, poison, etc...) Give each attack an xml file and only fill in the attack action (might need to fill in the others but leave empty without frames, I am not sure but I think you can leave them out entirely and only do the attack action). Then in monsters.xml you can layer on the appropriate attack and colour it.

About the shadow: I barely notice the change as the skull gets closer to the ground. Might as well just leave the shadow constant. This means you can just layer on: monsters/accessories/generic-shadow-small-circle.png
It will be just like the butterfly does, except you can add some horizontal offsets to match the skull's movements.

Sorry for the long post, it just seems like a really good idea to clean up the skull animation at the same time as adding possibilities for diff elements.
User avatar
lien
Novice
Novice
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:59 am
Location: France

Re: a new skull

Post by lien » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:18 am

@nmaligec: about compressing frame ? looks more than it ?

Image

also add attack effect like accesories would be very nice
but we also can add other accesories for the skull, such as a warlord helmet for do a fallen's skull ... (it's just a idea) and that can make a lot of skull but each'll be very different :wink:

Lien ...
Image
User avatar
Alige
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Weed Island

Re: a new skull

Post by Alige » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:44 am

It is a nice idea but I think making 2 or 3 more skulls would be way enough because people want new things. The more you create skulls, the more you need to create an item dropped by one of these skull. If not, people will lost interest of killing them.
Image
User avatar
lien
Novice
Novice
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:59 am
Location: France

Re: a new skull

Post by lien » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:15 am

Ali-G wrote:It is a nice idea but I think making 2 or 3 more skulls would be way enough because people want new things. The more you create skulls, the more you need to create an item dropped by one of these skull. If not, people will lost interest of killing them.
you are right.
So, before do a lot of skull who will not killed by anyone, you've to take an example from an monster who is redyable a lot but who is very killed:

the slimes
there is two way of "why they are killed by players ?".
  • the first one, they are killed for their drops the yellow one gives iron ore and iron ore are in a lot of quest and a spell very useful, the sea slime for Pearls, the red for win money, and the green, the rudolf and santa for which item useful ? :?
  • the second one, they are killed because they are for a lot of level the green are for neewbies, the santa for level for higher than player who kill green one ...


So, if we want a monster very killing we have to: add a lot of item useful dropable by them, and do them for a lot of level:
  • if we add a fallen's skull that monster will be for higher level (the purple one too ?)
  • if we add a normal skull (with any effect and colored with same color as skelleton) that'll be for lower level
  • [other skull type between] fallen's skull and normal skull
  • [other skull type between] fallen's skull and poison skull
and this is only a idea ... :wink:

Lien ...
Image
User avatar
Alige
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Weed Island

Re: a new skull

Post by Alige » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:37 am

In TAW, we see skulls with a warlord helmet. We could do the same thing but this skull could drop 1) Warlord Helmet (very low drop rate) 2) A skull 3) Dark Crystal 4) X
The X = an item that is not already made (a new one so), but that we will create and that will be highly dropped (for example for a quest).

We don't think enough!! Skulls should drop [Skull] !!
Image
User avatar
lien
Novice
Novice
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:59 am
Location: France

Re: a new skull

Post by lien » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:09 pm

Ali-G wrote: We don't think enough!! Skulls should drop [Skull] !!
this looks logic :wink:

what about turn the skull in White channel,
and do
  • normal skull drop [skull]
  • poison skull drop [poison skull] (make the skull green)
  • fire skull drop [fire skull] (red)
  • water skull drop [water skull] (blue)
  • Frozen( or ice) skull drop [frozen skull] (lite blue)
  • earth skull drop [eath skull] (brown)
  • .... [other element exist] :roll:
  • fallen's skull drop [skull] & [warlord helmet] very rarely
and that can make a quest with a NPC who collect all type of skull :!:

Lien...

[EDIT]
the "lite" sprites of the skull:
Image
Last edited by lien on Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: a new skull

Post by WildX » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:29 pm

Ali-G wrote:In TAW, we see skulls with a warlord helmet. We could do the same thing but this skull could drop 1) Warlord Helmet (very low drop rate) 2) A skull 3) Dark Crystal 4) X
The X = an item that is not already made (a new one so), but that we will create and that will be highly dropped (for example for a quest).

We don't think enough!! Skulls should drop [Skull] !!
A lot of people play TAW, they hate when you use stuff from other servers, we need something new and better than a warlord skull.
lien wrote:
Ali-G wrote: We don't think enough!! Skulls should drop [Skull] !!
this looks logic :wink:

what about turn the skull in White channel,
and do
  • normal skull drop [skull]
  • poison skull drop [poison skull] (make the skull green)
  • fire skull drop [fire skull] (red)
  • water skull drop [water skull] (blue)
  • Frozen( or ice) skull drop [frozen skull] (lite blue)
  • earth skull drop [eath skull] (brown)
  • .... [other element exist] :roll:
  • fallen's skull drop [skull] & [warlord helmet] very rarely
and that can make a quest with a NPC who collect all type of skull :!:

Lien...
The most important thing is the quest, useless items like current skull and acorns are....useless :P
User avatar
lien
Novice
Novice
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:59 am
Location: France

Re: a new skull

Post by lien » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:18 pm

Argh ! I have finished the XML ! :wink:
110 line here !
and it works with
Image

:wink:

Lien...
Image
User avatar
Alige
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Weed Island

Re: a new skull

Post by Alige » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:56 pm

For fun and to give ideas:
colored-skulls-sprite-sheet.png
colored-skulls-sprite-sheet.png (17.03 KiB) Viewed 1098 times
colored-skulls.png
colored-skulls.png (1.79 KiB) Viewed 1098 times
Also, the eyes of the skull (the mob or/and the item) can be changed colors (fire, poison, ice/water).
Don't forget: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... ull#p99320 -> a ice skull (item) could be made too.

Napalm.
Image
Post Reply