woodland tileset

All development of pixel art and graphics
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ElvenProgrammer
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:39 am

Oh well what to say more? The diagonal tiles are strictly at 45?. It could be nice to have them a bit more wild :P
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Kineticstorm
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Post by Kineticstorm » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:20 pm

Heh, I don't think I stated what I meant by the trees correctly... I didn't mean that exact tree... I meant the outline of it, like how it looks naturaly wild...

Anyway, I think all those tiles are really good but need improvements like Talaroc mentioned. :wink:
I love you too. :)
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Crush
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Post by Crush » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:43 pm

maci wrote:but i guess you need some shadow ..
easier said than done when you keep tileability and moving objects in mind. but i'll see what can be done when i'm finished with the basic shape.
ElvenProgrammer wrote:Oh well what to say more? The diagonal tiles are strictly at 45?. It could be nice to have them a bit more wild :P
when they would look more wild, they would look more tiled.

and don't forget that a mapper has to work with it. take a look at the brown rocks from the desert tileset. they look very natural in the tileset, but have you ever tried to build another shape with them? it looks gross because the tiles are horrible unflexible.

i have to find a compromise between natural look and useability for mapping.


@everything Talarok said: look at the other tilesets. you can't tell me that my tiles aren't good enough for this game. when i look at the other tilesets i don't understand why i should strive to such a high grade of perfection as you demand. in addition please note that you really lowered my motivation. i had a lot ideas for new tiles in mind this afternoon, but now i don't feel like doing it any more because you demoralized me a lot. just wanted to let you know.
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Post by Bjørn » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:45 pm

Crush wrote:@everything Talarok said: look at the other tilesets. you can't tell me that my tiles aren't good enough for this game. when i look at the other tilesets i don't understand why i should strive to such a high grade of perfection as you demand. in addition please note that you really lowered my motivation. i had a lot ideas for new tiles in mind this afternoon, but now i don't feel like doing it any more because you demoralized me a lot. just wanted to let you know.
Please feel free to be less perfectionist than Talaroc. Talaroc has yet to make his contribution to the game, and while his contribution is important (he's working on the new playerset now), you don't have to take head to what he's asking from you if you feel it's not something you can or want to do.
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Post by Talaroc » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:05 pm

Crush wrote:@everything Talarok said: look at the other tilesets. you can't tell me that my tiles aren't good enough for this game. when i look at the other tilesets i don't understand why i should strive to such a high grade of perfection as you demand. in addition please note that you really lowered my motivation. i had a lot ideas for new tiles in mind this afternoon, but now i don't feel like doing it any more because you demoralized me a lot. just wanted to let you know.
First off, don't take it so harsh! I was pointing out things that I think merit further attention, not laying down a "j00 sux0r g0 4w4y." I expect no less in the way of C&C when I post graphics.
Second, yes, I'm a perfectionist. Graphics, artwork, music...these things are what I'm working on doing for a living. Does that mean I'm awesome at all of them? No, but it does mean I set high standards. I also have high hopes for this game; I want to see it improve on the graphical style of SoM. Sure, look at the other tilesets...and look at the character set, and SFX, and all the other odds and ends in this game; it's a work in progress. I want to see the finished product come out sparkling, which means a lot of work by everyone involved (myself included).
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ElvenProgrammer
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:32 am

Crush wrote:
ElvenProgrammer wrote:Oh well what to say more? The diagonal tiles are strictly at 45?. It could be nice to have them a bit more wild :P
when they would look more wild, they would look more tiled.

and don't forget that a mapper has to work with it. take a look at the brown rocks from the desert tileset. they look very natural in the tileset, but have you ever tried to build another shape with them? it looks gross because the tiles are horrible unflexible.

i have to find a compromise between natural look and useability for mapping.
Well still I've never seen such matematical perfection in nature :P
I mean you can just give the lower border a bit more movement to improve it a lot, but of course if you prefer it this way I won't kill you.
Crush wrote:@everything Talarok said: look at the other tilesets. you can't tell me that my tiles aren't good enough for this game. when i look at the other tilesets i don't understand why i should strive to such a high grade of perfection as you demand. in addition please note that you really lowered my motivation. i had a lot ideas for new tiles in mind this afternoon, but now i don't feel like doing it any more because you demoralized me a lot. just wanted to let you know.
Just keep in mind most of the tiles from that tileset were made in 5 minutes, without reference nor concept, just to have something to work on. Further more they were created in low res (16x16) and then rescaled 2x, so it's obvious they don't have high quality standards. That's why me and Golgo are working on recreating desert1 and desert2 tilesets in higher quality and following the concept art that was developed for the new tulimshar. And "why should you strive to such a high grade of perfection?". Why not if you can reach it? If you like this project and you want to help it to be nice, than if you can do something perfect why not simply do it? We're trying to organize ourselves to elevate our standards of quality, that's why I asked all of you to participate to the artists meetings. And please don't say your motivation was lowered by comments and crtitics or everyone will only say your work is perfect as it is just to have some new fresh tiles and won't care at all about sufficient quality. Anyway if your way is the one to make only basic quality tiles, don't worry, just do it, we will improve them later, or someone else will do it.


@Talaroc: yeah we're waiting for your work :P
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Post by Crush » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:27 am

ElvenProgrammer wrote:And "why should you strive to such a high grade of perfection?". Why not if you can reach it? If you like this project and you want to help it to be nice, than if you can do something perfect why not simply do it?
I would if i could. but i can't. Im not a professional pixel artist. before i started with this project i made some rudimental tiles for a canceled rpg project some years ago, but thats all experience i got. i know you just want me to do the best work i can, but as an amateur i can't make tiles as good as a professional graphic designer with years of experience. regardles how much you push me. at least not yet.
And please don't say your motivation was lowered by comments and crtitics or everyone will only say your work is perfect as it is just to have some new fresh tiles and won't care at all about sufficient quality.
You should have noticed by now, that i can stand a lot critique. but there are limits.

speaking of critic, i could need some critic on my newest version of the cliffs.
Image
i adjusted the shading of the diagonal tiles. i think they look less flat now. i also made the upper and lower side less continuouse and increased the area of different shading. the cliff still looks a little bit displaced, but an integration into the grass tile will sure fix that as it did with the water tiles. maybe it will need some brightness adjustment as well.

while looking at this picture i just got the idea that it would maybe look better when the upper side wouldn't hang over the cliff but would fall back so that there is a round transmition between horizontal and vertical (i hope you understand what i mean). what do you think?
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:27 am

I really appreciate the work you did on the lower border, now it really looks to be more natural. I don't like the upper one though, it just goes as a sine curve. Is that below flowers a darker shade of the grass tile or is it just an optical effect? If so, great work they could be really useful to place here and there to give some more variation, if not well you have an idea on what to do next. About the sharp transition from rocks to grass, it is maybe worth a try to create a smooth transition using mud or mould. And please do something about alien flowers :P

[EDIT]
Ok I see the grass it's only normal grass. :(
Here is my attempt in reducing saturation:
Image
[/EDIT]
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Post by HaLLanHype » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:38 pm

I dunno if you worried about grass yet...

but if not or whatever... when you do I would make some grass covering the edge like gorwing right to edge...
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Post by Rotonen » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:16 pm

After a long period of "Eek! Cannot say anything to hurt his feelings.. :roll:" I've actually started to like what I see here, great job, I guess.. :)

You now have the basic shapes (8 directions), I guess it could use some interchangeable variation via decals, that can be put together in almost any way imaginable. Makes the mapper's job a lot easier and produces better quality overall. (Different grass patterns? Different edge patterns? Wall decals? Anything? ;) )
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Post by maci » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:36 pm

rotonen :

i guess its just like he shows his art while it is really in development while othr artist may post a 3/4 and a whole finished version
ElvenProgrammer wrote:Maci: don't be rude, we're here to help people ;)
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Crush
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Post by Crush » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:11 pm

about the flowers: yes, i don't like the blue ones either. i don't know why i put them on that screenshot. i will for sure remove or replace them in the final version. but because they are a very unimportant tile this is actually a low priority.

about the grass: you can indeed see my 2nd grass tile on the screenshot. the high level uses the 2nd one while the low level uses the 1st one. the background of the objects on the upper level is still the 1st grass tile (and will most likely stay that way). i just wanted to check if anyone notices ;)
maci wrote:i guess its just like he shows his art while it is really in development while othr artist may post a 3/4 and a whole finished version
that's exactly what i do. i want to involve as many people as possible in the development process. 12 people are more creative than one. there is also the problem that you become blind for your own flaws when you work alone. thats why i post work-in-progress screenshots of almost every single tile.

i appreciate every opinion. without your opinions my tiles would still look like those crappy ones on the picture on page 1. but what i like most is constructive critic. some examples:
you walls suck - sorry
very bad. to know that something sucks but not why doesn't help me a bit.
your wall tiles need improvement
very bad, too. it's more friendly but says absolutely the same.
the shading of the walls look strange
thats better. at least something i can work with.
the wall texture looks as if it comes toward the viewer. but it should head away from him. maybe there is a problem with the shading?
thats a really good critic. it doesn't only states that something is wrong but also whats wrong. now i can try some things and see if it helps or not.
you made a mistake when shading the wall. you applied the bright color tone to the lower right side of the stones. but considering the light source and the orientation of the stones the upper left side should be the brightest.
YES! Thats a really good comment. it doesn't only states whats wrong but even why it is wrong and what i could do to correct it. that really helps me a lot.


by the way: i still would like to hear some comments about my walls-falling-back idea. just to illustrate it a little bit, thats the actual shape seen from the side:
Image
thats what i am thinking about:
Image
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Post by Bjørn » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:23 pm

I think you're doing really nice work. I hope I can help explaining why the cliffs look a bit strange by showing you a version I just added shadow to using the GIMP below. I think it makes it perfectly clear how the cliffs should be interpreted in terms of shape/depth. Note that I also put a blur on the grass at the bottom, I did this on purpose because that part of the grass would be less lit by the sun because of the nearby cliff.

Image

Also it seems you hadn't done anything about the high saturation of your tileset as I had showed you before. Do you disagree about it being too high? In the above image I reduced saturation again.
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Post by Crush » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:58 pm

the subtile drop shadow looks good. i think i'll do it when i come to the grass integration.

about the saturation: yes, i disagree with you about it.
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Post by Ultim » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:00 am

i think the high saturation grass looks much, much better. The reduced saturation looks very boring.

Crush: The diagonal top is curvey but the diagonal bottom is straight. It may look better if when the top curved the bottom curved also.
There are many lighting imperfections on the rocks. For example, when it goes from diagonal to straight, there's a whole row of really bright rocks then there are rows and rows of darker rocks. i think everything really looks just great though, and nice job with all the hard work.
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