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I got these ideas about a library after reading the wiki about Tulimshar.
http://wiki.themanaworld.org/Tulimshar

The library would contain information about general gameplay, world and local history, geography and a little about the most common monsters. Depending on the skill system, some "skill books" for common skills and basic recipes could be also found. The information would be in form of readable books: adventurers' diaries, old studies, storybooks, recipe books and so on. Hints for quests could be hidden in the stories.

There could be an inner area needing to complete a quest to gain access to. Inside would be rarer books and prehaps an alchemy or magic shop or an npc selling those items.

Because Tulimshar's history in the wiki is only brief, I'll make some suggestions considering the library.

- The library is a monument built for the magician who designed and lead the casting of the soil protection spell.

- It is not built in the palace area, instead "near the people". Maybe because some hostilities between the magician and the senate(?).

- The magician is buried in the library, not in the royal tombs, because of the hostilities.

- There is a statue of the magician in the main hall.

- There must be absolute silence in the library!

Please send more suggestions and comments about the whole idea.

-- Nafti

Nafti wrote:- There must be absolute silence in the library!

and everyone who says something in public chat in the library is automatically warped out by a warden spell against disturbance

im thinking about:

-bookshelfs higher than anyone can reach
-abstract sculptures and other art pieces here and there
-a cellar which is a mini dungeon filled with monsters (a part of the quest to enter the inner library could be to retreive a book from there)

The bookshelves pose a problem until we solve something that is known amongst the des as "the infamous bridge dilemma" and allow transparency when the player is behind something.

i dont think the library should have a section on game play >.>

It would be strange if i went to a labrary and checked how to attack <,<

You should just keep the F1 option in(Help Box)

But the library could be used for quests and database information.

Rotonen wrote:The bookshelves pose a problem until we solve something that is known amongst the des as "the infamous bridge dilemma" and allow transparency when the player is behind something.

With this "bridge dilemma" do you mean this? http://wiki.themanaworld.org/Action_Layers

I think bookshelves are not part of the bridge dilemma problem, unless they would involve multiple walkable floors above each other.

If it's about walking in front as well as behind a book shelf, then this problem is sheduled to be solved by an improvement to fringe layer rendering that I hope to make before the next release.

could you please stop talking about all this technical stuff? we are trying to be creative here.

we can be much more creative when we collect ideas first without having to think about what the technical difficulties would be. when we come to the implementation phase we can think about how it could be made (there is more than one way to display high bookshelfs) and what ideas have to be discarded because they aren't technically possible.

Yay freedom is the key, and with developers such as me you don't have to worry about implementation, everything is possible

Crush wrote:could you please stop talking about all this technical stuff? we are trying to be creative here.

Freedom in creativity starts with the possibility to implement.

And yes I like the idea of a library with a monster, alchemy, weapons, armor, people (NPC's, mostly), world history and geography database.

the library is separated into different sections which are organized around a central reading hall:

-history and geography
-magic
-fighting
-crafting
-zoology (monsters)
-poetry
-life aid (useless but funny books)

inside the sections the books are sorted alphabetically.


repeatable quest/job:

-you can work as a librarian. your task is to find random books inside the library and bring them to the wizards who are studying there. they tip you with some money, minor buffs or some weak potions.


about the basement:

-old magic books which came to life
-ghosts of the wizards who got buried there (mini boss? boss?)
-no basement dungeon is completed without spiders and rats

Shouldn't this be in the Tulimshar thread? Just asking, really

Anyway, the current develop of the library is... zero Good ideas above.
Where do you think it should be placed? It was supposed to be on the skirts of the mountain, but that no longer works. I was thinking about puting it inside the small precincts that contains the "palace", and the palace -as i said on IRC- is no longer a single building but a small complex of a meeting halls, livings for the leaders and offices for each "job" (military, education, magic, etc).
I suggest adding the library to that building complex.
For inspiration take a look at what i aim to do:
http://www.hytti.uku.fi/~jumykkan/files/alhambra.jpg
http://www.quovadimus.org/spain99/alham ... eones1.jpg

When thinked again, the palace area seems a more logical place for the library than "near the people". I suppose most of the poor people can't even read.

Since Tulimshar concentrates more on fighting than on magic and knowledge (correct me if i'm wrong), maybe the architecture should be slightly different than in other buildins. At least inside. Sure there could be sculptures and art, maybe one wing as a museum.

The same books should be accessible by everyone in the library, so I don't think picking up every book from the shelves to be read elsewhere is a good idea. But for the book fetching quest there could be unique books or just moveable copies of the basic ones.

The book fetching quest is a nice idea but it should be more challenging than searching through the sections and finding the book. The book(moveable copy) could be anywhere in the library, not just in the shelves. The wizards don't always remember where they left the ones they forgot to return . It could also involve collecting some ingredients or tools found in the cellar. Once you find the book, collect the things described in the book and bring them and the book to the wizard. And the books in the library shouldn't be stealable.

The quest about accessing the restricted parts of the library could involve obtaining stolen books. The thief could still have some books, some could be sold in the market (the salesman doesn't know they are stolen), some could be in private collections. Once you return maybe 3 (or so) books, you would gain access to the whole library.

Of course there must be spiders and rats in the cellar Propably a few ghosts, maybe few involved in some quest. Not every buried wizard returns as a ghost, so summoned magical guardians might be better. If there are several buried wizards down there, they all could rest in a deeper part of the cellar, connected also to the royal tombs.

the restricted part of the library could contain knowledge which is too dangerous for common people. the sections could be:

-demonology (information about high level monsters)
-artefacts (the properties and background storys of rare items)
-magic (not the noob stuff in the regular part. here you can read about the spells which really kick ass and how to optain them)
-exploration reports (in depth information about high level dungeons and level areas)


but when i think of it... wouldn't Sonbrand, the kingdom of scholars, be a more reasonable place for the greatest library in the world?

but when i think of it... wouldn't Sonbrand, the kingdom of scholars, be a more reasonable place for the greatest library of the world?

Yes it would, but it doesn't mean smaller libraries can't exist in major cities. I think there should be different information in different libraries, not everything everywhere. Well there could be almost everything in Sonbrand

The same books should be accessible by everyone in the library, so I don't think picking up every book from the shelves to be read elsewhere is a good idea. But for the book fetching quest there could be unique books or just moveable copies of the basic ones.

I vote for a spot where the players ask for a book, takes a moveable copy and goes to a hall with tables for reading. And if you talk in that room you ass gets kicked!!