The official server flamewar topic

[blackrazor]

Actually all of the current, at the time, GMs felt that we couldn't do our jobs properly. So it wasn't just frost and o11c.

All of the GMs, at various points, in various threads, claimed they weren't in on the move, and had various levels of unease at how it was done. They all supported the move, but that's not the same thing as being committed to it.

How exactly did the GMs feel they couldn't do their jobs properly?

The botting rule was clarified. GMs were testing even family members on the same map for botting; this my family and I know from personal experience, on multiple occasions, from about six months ago. "Hands cut off" didn't apply to GMs; it was regarding the whole "Devs wanting to be GMs" issue, which had nothing to do with people who were already GMs.

You fail to remember the past don't you? If you consider all the people who have left the project, your 'one shining beacon' becomes the shining reason why they left. While Platyna may not have 'removed' people, she made working on this project for the people she wanted gone a living hell.

This is no different from what the TMWC does now. Just ask Nard.

Nothing like logging in one day to see that the great and mighty wicked witch of Poland has broken something because she logged in the previous night and decided to dick around with the server. Or that she has taken out her drunken rage on the community she claims she cares so much about. Most of the older players remember the nights she'd show up and stumble her pixels around town, lord over her crown and proceed to ban people because she felt like it.

I'm an older player. Certainly not the oldest, but old enough to have witnessed Platyna's rule. I was here a lot in 2007 and 2008. I never saw what you claim of Platyna. By the scientific method, I cannot claim it never happened, since I wasn't online 24/7, but I was on a lot, and I never saw Platyna behave in anything but a respectable fashion.

Platy, whatever sacrifices you made in the past to this game...whatever good you may have done...it's all been wiped clean the more you troll this forum. You have your .net...and .org doesn't want you and doesn't need you. No one here feels sorry for you Platy, only pity...the only support you are getting are from your own personal trolls. Quit bouncing off them and go feed your ego off your 3 players.

I consider myself as much ".Org as .Net". Dyna, you don't speak for all the ".Org" players, and you certainly don't speak for me.

======

Forgive me for resurrecting a slightly old post but I am sad to see it come to this Plat.

Your rule was one with an iron fist that made many angry but in the end you kept TMW alive. I, for one, will truly be sad to see someone go who put so much time and effort into making sure it stuck around as long as it has.

Wish you well in your future endeavors.

Aww Nard, how cute...you can quote posts that have no relevance now!

Ever heard of trying to be polite to someone having a temper tantrum online? Yeah, that's what that was.

Platy can take her vodka and her little flying monkeys elsewhere. That includes you too. Thanks

You write like a politician with two faces. Who knows what you really think is true, the first or the second? And you accuse others of being trolls? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror. At least, by your own admission, the old Dyna was polite.

[Cassy]

While Platyna may not have 'removed' people, she made working on this project for the people she wanted gone a living hell.

This is no different from what the TMWC does now.

Sorry, the TMWC makes working on this project for some people a living hell?

I don't know what "a living hell" was back in the past for those people, but I find that description very hard and therefore totally disagree with you about the current team.
Allow me to ask why you think this way?
Also please post details like examples.
The part with Nard wasn't nice, I agree, but this was no "living hell" and I guess this is the only example you have...?

Please don't get me wrong, but I believe you just re-used this "living hell" thing, which is a far too hard description and refer to one single example.
Also I guess you are not one of the names on IRC I don't really know and therefore don't see how nicely they work, discuss and have fun together.

I read every not hidden post on IRC and the forums and can tell you that there is a good atmosphere.

[Cassy]

You write like a politician with two faces. Who knows what you really think is true, the first or the second? And you accuse others of being trolls? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror. At least, by your own admission, the old Dyna was polite.

I actually don't want to speak for Dyna (or anyone else), but maybe you understand when a third person explains to you:
She simply changed her mind.
...and this is a thing I totally understand since Platyna's posts in the last 2-3 months were far away from posts that could make people think/realize she is a nice person.

[Nard]

I don't know how was the previous Dyna was, she hadn't made a post since 2011 and so little before. She only comes back with hate in mind. The actual one doesn't make me want to know her better.

...and this is a thing I totally understand since Platyna's posts in the last 2-3 months were far away from posts that could make people think/realize she is a nice person.

You can still read the integrality of the posts Platyna made before the move on this forum to understand why she is angry now and why some are angry at her. You can also verify the same way that Platyna was and is far to be the only cause of problems in TMW.

[prsm]

Actually all of the current, at the time, GMs felt that we couldn't do our jobs properly. So it wasn't just frost and o11c.

All of the GMs, at various points, in various threads, claimed they weren't in on the move, and had various levels of unease at how it was done. They all supported the move, but that's not the same thing as being committed to it.

How exactly did the GMs feel they couldn't do their jobs properly?

And this is why this flame war will go on for ever! People can say what ever they want when ever they want!

Every Gm supported the move and we are still committed to it!

Blackrazor, if you want to know why we felt we could not do our jobs, re-read some of the posts that you have
posted in, its all there.

And please if you are going to use me in a quote, please include the quote (reference to "All of the GMs")!

Prsm

[WildX]

Actually all of the current, at the time, GMs felt that we couldn't do our jobs properly. So it wasn't just frost and o11c.

As far as I know, GMs never had any power over this kind of decisions, it was given to them so that the "anti-Platyna" side of the GHP could gain numbers. As a GM your only problem with Platyna, I think, would have been the multiboxing rule and, again, that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to kick her out. "Couldn't do our jobs properly" seems a bit extreme, unless there's more "secret threads" I'm not aware of.

[Jaxad0127]

Actually all of the current, at the time, GMs felt that we couldn't do our jobs properly. So it wasn't just frost and o11c.

As far as I know, GMs never had any power over this kind of decisions, it was given to them so that the "anti-Platyna" side of the GHP could gain numbers. As a GM your only problem with Platyna, I think, would have been the multiboxing rule and, again, that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to kick her out. "Couldn't do our jobs properly" seems a bit extreme, unless there's more "secret threads" I'm not aware of.

So, the elected player representatives shouldn't have a say?

BTW, as the thread that Big Crunch made public shows, the GMs had to ask Platyna about edge cases and the like. And Platyna would take her time responding, and often give a non answer when she did finally acknowledge the issue.

[Len]

At this point I say just wipe both servers and nobody can complain about who owns what.

[blackrazor]

Actually all of the current, at the time, GMs felt that we couldn't do our jobs properly. So it wasn't just frost and o11c.

As far as I know, GMs never had any power over this kind of decisions, it was given to them so that the "anti-Platyna" side of the GHP could gain numbers. As a GM your only problem with Platyna, I think, would have been the multiboxing rule and, again, that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to kick her out. "Couldn't do our jobs properly" seems a bit extreme, unless there's more "secret threads" I'm not aware of.

So, the elected player representatives shouldn't have a say?

BTW, as the thread that Big Crunch made public shows, the GMs had to ask Platyna about edge cases and the like. And Platyna would take her time responding, and often give a non answer when she did finally acknowledge the issue.

They are not elected player representatives, they are elected-for-life + GHP approved LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS! How many times, seriously? Their job is not to represent the players, it is to enforce the rules laid down by the administration, for the players to obey. That is not player representation. In your country, would you like to elect-for-life (subject to executive approval) the sheriffs (law enforcement officers) to your congress, and have THAT called your representatives?

Also, one person's "edge case" is another person's continual push to encroach on rules that were already clearly made and set. Just saying. I can see Platyna getting annoyed after a while of the same thing, over and over, and start giving short answers to people that should have already known better by then. Was that the best way for her to handle it? No. Does it stop GMs from doing their job? No. Is it a reason to kick out a top-admin and take her data-files for your own fork? No.

====

Sorry, the TMWC makes working on this project for some people a living hell?

I don't know what "a living hell" was back in the past for those people, but I find that description very hard and therefore totally disagree with you about the current team.
Allow me to ask why you think this way?
Also please post details like examples.
The part with Nard wasn't nice, I agree, but this was no "living hell" and I guess this is the only example you have...?

I cannot speak for Nard, but I did give him as an example, because it was very public, so anyone can look it up. It looked like a "living hell" to me, the way he was singled out and sanctioned on the forums, for doing nothing more than members of the meritocratic club were allowing for themselves. Platyna and Nard are both gone, and it has only been a couple months. Let's see what the next few years will look like, if two months already look like this. I don't doubt that those in the "meritocratic club" are treated well and welcomed. But the true test is how those outside of that meritocratic club are treated, if they disagree.

I cannot post links to it directly, because it is private mail sent to a group. Either you are in the group and have read it, or not. But I cannot betray that confidence. I did advise you to ask Nard. The other details are in a forum thread that is now hidden; I cannot read it anymore either.

EDIT: I guess that makes it less public than it was originally.

[prsm]

They are not elected player representatives, they are elected-for-life + GHP approved LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS! How many times, seriously? Their job is not to represent the players, it is to enforce the rules laid down by the administration, for the players to obey. That is not player representation. In your country, would you like to elect-for-life (subject to executive approval) the sheriffs (law enforcement officers) to your congress, and have THAT called your representatives?

Also, one person's "edge case" is another person's continual push to encroach on rules that were already clearly made and set. Just saying. I can see Platyna getting annoyed after a while of the same thing, over and over, and start giving short answers to people that should have already known better by then. Was that the best way for her to handle it? No. Does it stop GMs from doing their job? No. Is it a reason to kick out a top-admin and take her data-files for your own fork? No.

Blackrazor, have you ever been GM on TMW working underneath Platyna?
Better yet, have you any understanding how botting has evolved over the 2 years I have been a GM!

Silly question, of course you do ........ than why make the above statement?

Prsm


ps. still waiting for a quote from you saying that i said i was against the move! you gotta back that up if you
want credibility!

[Jaxad0127]

They are not elected player representatives, they are elected-for-life + GHP approved LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS! How many times, seriously? Their job is not to represent the players, it is to enforce the rules laid down by the administration, for the players to obey. That is not player representation.

From http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 38#p132138:

A. Game Masters. Game Masters are responsible for enforcing the rules of the game, in game. Secondarily, Game Masters act as a bridge from the players to development team. All Game Masters are members of The Mana World Committee. To become a Game Master, a person must be voted in by the player community and approved by The Mana World Committee.

See also: http://forums.themanaworld.org/posting. ... 1&p=132157.

I'm looking for the official public definition of GMs in the older GHP structure. I'll post when I find it.

[Rill]

Blackrazor, have you ever been GM on TMW working underneath Platyna?
Better yet, have you any understanding how botting has evolved over the 2 years I have been a GM!

Silly question, of course you do ........ than why make the above statement?

Because he is a troll, that's why.

ps. still waiting for a quote from you saying that i said i was against the move! you gotta back that up if you
want credibility!

Credibility is not what he wants.

[blackrazor]

They are not elected player representatives, they are elected-for-life + GHP approved LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS! How many times, seriously? Their job is not to represent the players, it is to enforce the rules laid down by the administration, for the players to obey. That is not player representation.

From http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 38#p132138:

A. Game Masters. Game Masters are responsible for enforcing the rules of the game, in game. Secondarily, Game Masters act as a bridge from the players to development team. All Game Masters are members of The Mana World Committee. To become a Game Master, a person must be voted in by the player community and approved by The Mana World Committee.

See also: http://forums.themanaworld.org/posting. ... 1&p=132157.

I'm looking for the official public definition of GMs in the older GHP structure. I'll post when I find it.

You can show me a quote where the sky is officially declared purple by those in power, that does not make it so. That same thread you quoted has a discussion about how GMs cannot be representatives of those they are assigned to review and punish (as appropriate). It is a conflict of interest. Maybe in the Spanish Inquisition you can refer to your enforcer and punisher as also your representative, but not in the modern world.

*more trollings*

Awww ... cute. I have my very own TheManaWorld forums stalker. Well, at least it's a girl (I hope).

[Rill]

Awww ... cute. I have my very own TheManaWorld forums stalker.

It takes one to know one.

[Len]

you can show me a quote where the sky is officially declared purple by those in power, that does not make it so. That same thread you quoted has a discussion about how GMs cannot be representatives of those they are assigned to review and punish (as appropriate). It is a conflict of interest. Maybe in the Spanish Inquisition you can refer to your enforcer and punisher as also your representative, but not in the modern

if you don't believe they go by their own definitions they themselves defined, then what makes you think they would adhere to a constitution even if they had one?