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Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 13:51
by Modanung
About swearing... this could be sensored in a funny way as they did in the game 'Outcast'. The Talan (other dimention's species) said "zort" instead of "feces", "crap", "guano" or "poo".
So they sometimes called eachother "a piece of zort"
As can be heard in THIS soundfile.

We could replace swearing with "native swearing" as well; made-up words. I think it's a better way of sensoring then just replacing a letter with an *. For one because the word isn't recognisable anymore, above that it's less boring.

Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:14
by ktm
now there's a good idea :D
something remotely similar crossed my mind earlier, how about the npcs, dependion on the region, had their own names for certain items? like, in the desert it's called "quecoat'l juice", in the icy plains something like "exotic green liquid" (but in the inventory it just shows up as "catus juice", as not to confuse players)?
back to swearing: we should also include a list of common mutations to get replaced, else ppl will just use "krap", "phuck" etc instead.

Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 15:05
by Gonzalo
This text replacing idea is great!
I've heard about something of the like in WoW, where for instance Orcs' text appears translated in a human's chat window. Although in that case, it's not limited to swearing. it just is impossible for a human to comunicate with an orc :P.

ktm's is excellent too. About the naming of items.

Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 16:09
by Crush
automatic text substitution usually doesn't stop people from swearing. when they aren't allowed to say "fuck" they say "F U C K" or "fu(k" or "F*U*C*K". it's impossible to cover every possible version. and if you try it would also cause many false positives. in ragnarok online for example you were not allowed to ask another player if he wants to buy a Bastardsword. Some people started calling it "the forbidden weapon" ;)

Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 20:25
by Pajarico
-no swear words or insulting other players
Yes, but only in public channels. There rest is ok to me.

Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 14:19
by Bjørn
-no bug exploiting
-no bots
-no intentional blocking of passages
-no swear words or insulting other players
-no lootstealing until pvp is implemented. when pvp is implemented we can discuss about allowing loot stealing in pvp areas.
I'd just like to point out that it's a bit early for this. For one I would at the moment encourage bug exploiting, because it encourages fixing it. I'd also like to encourage bots to be programmed, because this can actually add interesting things to the game, similar to what bots can do on IRC but even more fun of course. Also, any bot would still have the same limitations that any other player has, though we could set up special permissions for accounts where necessary.

Intentional blocking of passages and stealing loot are not supposed to be possible, so these go under bug exploiting.

I agree with the concerns about blocking swearing. We cannot use naive text replacement to do this. I also really don't think occasional use is that bad, though regular use of swearing should be punished. Maybe instead of text replacing, we could set up and maintain a hidden list of swear words and keep logs about their usage (by whom and when). Then let a moderator act on it.

About replacing swearing words by localized ones, I think making it funny to use swear words is a bad thing. We're also bound to get people saying all the swearing words they know, just to see if there has been a substitution set up for it.

Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 15:44
by Tenche
I think rules are great! and i will abide by them!

Crap shouldent be bleepeed or anything i say crap all the time it isint a bad word

In regards to swaring

Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 00:18
by AndyG314
Wouldn't it be simple to implement a filter (optional?) to filter out nauty words?

That would save a whole lot of complaning

Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 17:12
by Modanung
No, because you could make a slight variation to a word, then it wouldn't be filtered.
The best option maybe would be a neural network filter. But I suppose that's hard to implement. :) It would 'learn' what are foul words and what aren't. In all languages. People could report a message sent by a player as being insulting or obscene... or not. Then a person would have to confirm this. That way the filter would learn what words in what context should be filtered.

But as I said... probably way too hard to implement in relation to the result.

Posted: 29 Dec 2005, 17:31
by braindead0
Fascinating topic, I like the idea of some rules.. Glad the 'don't sell quest items' was dropped as it were.

Something to consider, regarding 'swear' words. Attempts to 'censor' will fail (as pointed out previously), and the fact is that unless reality has changed in some way... any offense that a person takes at someone else's words is their own fault. You know, words cannot hurt you. I fail to understand why people think that 'getting offended' is someone elses fault.

If a puritan showed up on a nude beach, would it be the nudists 'fault' that the puritan was offended?

Just my 2 cents.

I agree that an 'official' stance on 'foul' language is a good idea, but you must remember that it's entirely too subjective to be controlled in any meaningful way...

Posted: 07 Jan 2006, 02:30
by bahamutian
Theres an easy fix for the PvP and non-PvP characters.

Its done in the game Faldon:
Basically, there is a spell called Holy Aura, when this is on, you cannot pvp. If you attack a guard, your aura goes off, you can also get it to drop in that game by going to an aura free area and waiting for a little bit, or using a skill called beserk which makes you quicker, hit harder, and mana drain.

In this game though, we would definitely have to have an "protection on and protection off spell or something of the like"

btw: once you attacked someone, you became a criminal, unless the other person was a criminal. criminals could not cast aura.

More on this later, i gotta go.

I'll have some more suggestions later on.

Posted: 07 Jan 2006, 15:14
by Platyna
I think we shouldn't do server rules in sissy way. These are not dark times I was raised in, when a badword especially used by a woman or a girl. So about swearing...if someone wants, go ahead. Other thing is using bad words towards someone - that should be forbidden. About bots I have to agree with Bjorn - they add to the game some flavour, as player developed NPCs. In some other game I had a trade bot, and with my friends we were using the engine to create quest bots and other which were serving for various events.


Posted: 07 Jan 2006, 19:04
by Crush
Platyna wrote:they add to the game some flavour, as player developed NPCs. In some other game I had a trade bot, and with my friends we were using the engine to create quest bots and other which were serving for various events.
i like the idea of using client sided bots for that purpose.

But when i talked about bots i thought about bots that hunt items and train the character automatically so that the player needn't level himself. that is a) unfair toward those players who want to play their character honestly and b) destroyes the mmorpg atmosphere. you play online RPGs to have lots of real people to interact with you and not just scripted AI characters. when most characters you meet aren't controlled by real people but just by AIs you can also play a single player game. it's the same experience just without lags.

my proposal:
-forbid bots that attack monsters automatically

Posted: 07 Jan 2006, 19:20
by Platyna
Ah, such things are usually referred as macros, and indeed I have always been against such scripts.


Posted: 21 Jan 2006, 12:15
by Master Ar2ro
About the loot-stealing rule:
Isn't it possible to make the player who killed the monster (or dealt the most damage) to auto-pickup the loot? Or instead, show a list of items found with the ability to pick them up, before dropping them on the ground, so that noone else sees those items, and thus cannot pick them up, before the killer decides which items he wants to take? This would partialy solve the problem. Also the list/auto-pick up could work only if the player is close to the killed monster...
Just a little idea of mine.

As for cursing, well... I'm for making logs of people who swear and then the moderator would decide what to do with a person, like a ban, or deletion. Though humans are not really objective...

For the PVP thingy... I like what bahamutian wrote... and I hate being killed for no reason... pvp is good, when it's not overused... the reason why I stopped playing Tibia was because I was being killed over and over again, for no apparent reason... The first time I left the Rookgard or whatever it was called, I was killed... why? Because someone simply didn't like my name... I would to like to be able to choose in the begining of the game wether I want to be a pvp-enabled player or not, or every time I log in, or even let me switch that state during the game (though then a sufficient delay or conditions should be introduced, like when you turn on, you cannot turn off until you logoff... make the logoff procedure last a minute when you're pvp enabled, so you can't just run and hide then)

Bots... I have mixed feelings for such things... yeah... It would be nice to be able to script a player, or some actions for my char, but that DOES kill the rpg-aspect of the game... also what Crush said, don't allow scripts to train and level up for you... what'd be the problem then for me to run a script 24/7 that would be fighting for me for the first week or two, and then join the game at a reasonably high level with skills etc...

ok... this got long enough... hope I wrote something reasonable...