Thank you and good luck

[Quinny]

So sad to see you leaveing as admin. As others have said though I do hope to see you around ingame (asuming I get on). Much luck to whatever you wish to do next.

[Kazenawa]

That's so sad...
Well I've said much to you in private, so I won't repeat myself.

Thanks for all you've done, I hope to see you as a player

[WildX]

I'm sorry to see you go. You, as well as melkior, were one of the TMWC members that could actually talk to players.

I don't want to start a flamewar on this thread, but there's something bothering me with what you said in your first post:

I have reluctantly concluded that my ideas and efforts are neither desired by those making decisions nor effective in steering those decisions.

Who are "those making decisions"? Are/were you not a TMWC member? Who, in the TMWC, is making people with different ideas leave like this?

[Chicka-Maria]

We might not have agreed on everything in the past years but you were a decent admin. It's sad to see you are resigning considering you dealt with a whole bunch of Chocolate Cupcake without rage quitting and I respect you for that. You stayed for a long time and put up with a lot of crap from people. Thats one of the reasons why I respect your decision. Thank you for everything you did and I hope to see you in the game

regards,
Chicka

[Dyna]

(To finish, for those who are waiting to throw "fireworks" when/if this ends badly, I’m sorry, but we don’t need players like that)

Yes you do...you need every single one of us who have stuck this thing out. Without us, all you have is a group of people who can't get along tearing apart a game and a community. Those of us waiting to see if burns to the ground, it's because the newest group who has their hands on a game we've been playing for years is striking the matches and we're tired of telling them to stop it.

After so many years...some of us would appreciate it if the people in power would kindly stop it. It's a revolving door around here...and as a player, it's making me dizzy.

[Chicka-Maria]

Honestly, Some people are leaving the project yes. But people have left before and TMW is still going strong with its community. There are gloomy days when people leave on working on the project but they made it clear (at least one of them) that they are not leaving the community. It's up to the community to stay strong in times like these, and its the community that keeps the game going.

I think what silent dawn meant is that we don't need more of the "I can't wait till this project fails" attitude because that attitude will bring nothing but frustration and clashes into the community, more than there already is.

The people who are in TMWC have also been playing the game for years. Most of them have been playing continuously as well with no breaks so its not like it was just made from people who joined a year ago.

Discussions have been talked about on how to make TMWC more transparent and better communications towards the community (such as more Dev meetings in game for example). TMWC discussions *HAVE* been more transparent than before and it will continue to do so more and more. whether it be on IRC, the forums, the game etc. Sometimes there *are* decisions that need to be made on emergency whether it be a GM dealing with an abusive player, an admin helping someone with technical issues that prevent players from playing the game or a Dev fixing bugs before it escalates into something bigger and worse (the money bug is a good example from people who know about it).

I think if the community (players and TMWC members) have a more open mind about being in each others shoes sometimes so we can come to conclusions and make a better environment for everybody to settle in.

I know I'm not the best person to talk since I cannot do much as one person in the community, But I'm not going anywhere and I'll continue to try my best as a player and as a TMWC member to help make the community better and more positive instead of waiting for a game I love and enjoy to crash..

regards,
Chicka

[Dyna]

Oh I don't want to see it fail...I want to see it continue on. But, I can't help it if the group in charge are the ones tearing it down. So we get to sit back and watch, because that's all we can do. It's bizarre to watch something I loved and cherished for the last 7 or so years be taken over by group after group and just used and abused.

Can't help what you aren't given the chance to try to help. Not sure how a dev meeting here and there will stop what is happening.

[Silent Dawn]

(To finish, for those who are waiting to throw "fireworks" when/if this ends badly, I’m sorry, but we don’t need players like that)

Yes you do...you need every single one of us who have stuck this thing out. Without us, all you have is a group of people who can't get along tearing apart a game and a community. Those of us waiting to see if burns to the ground, it's because the newest group who has their hands on a game we've been playing for years is striking the matches and we're tired of telling them to stop it.

After so many years...some of us would appreciate it if the people in power would kindly stop it. It's a revolving door around here...and as a player, it's making me dizzy.

And i ll keep saying, that in my opinion, we dont.

This game only exists because of players. That’s true.
However, players that watch the problems that TMWC has been struggling and keep with that attitude in mind waiting for everything to fall apart and celebrate after, why would we? Will it bring us somewhere? What reasons will you have to celebrate when everything’s gone?

Gladly, not everyone thinks like that and it’s in these cases where we see how our community is. And for that, thank you to everyone that keeps helping with everything they can.

TMWC is not perfect, but c’mon…people are trying!

And I’m deviating from the topic…this is about Frost.

[Chicka-Maria]

Oh I don't want to see it fail...I want to see it continue on. But, I can't help it if the group in charge are the ones tearing it down. So we get to sit back and watch, because that's all we can do. It's bizarre to watch something I loved and cherished for the last 7 or so years be taken over by group after group and just used and abused.

Can't help what you aren't given the chance to try to help. Not sure how a dev meeting here and there will stop what is happening.

A Dev meeting here and there shows more transparency towards the players and allows them to share their opinion on whats going to be done with TMW. So yes those meetings are important towards the community. I have also talked with TMWC members on how we can work things better towards each other in a way people wont argue all the time and we can get things done. So I'm doing my part on trying to stay positive I suggest to other players to do the same. Shoving a bra on a stick and burning it wont help in these kind of situations.

[Dyna]

Dawn...what else are we supposed to do? What can a player do? I am pretty sure the answer is nothing. We have no say in what goes on in the back rooms on the IRC. We have no say in when a random admin decides to implement some change that they didn't bother to discuss with the community.

After 7 years Dawn...you get tired of waiting for something good to happen when it's just the same old stuff again. TMWC isn't any different than the others that have come and gone.


Chicka, it's a bone tossed sure. But the one I sat in seemed to be nothing more than o11c finding excuses or trying to talk himself and what he does for TMW up. Maybe the other dev meetings were different but I don't really want to sit through another one of him stroking his own ego.

[Crush]

Dawn...what else are we supposed to do? What can a player do? I am pretty sure the answer is nothing.

The answer would be to volunteer for filling the vacant position on the TMWC.

But that would also require that you learn some skills which help with the development or maintainance of TMW. All TMWC members used to be normal players until they qualified themself by volunteering to get work done.

You can complain and protest all you want, but that won't change the fact that TMW is run by those who work for it. When you want influence, you have to earn it.

[o11c]

You were a very good GM and were nice to me. Hope you find enjoyment in whatever you choose to spend your time on.

If you thought he was a GM, then he was misrepresenting himself.

I can't hide that I think his departure (unlike melkior's) is for the best.

I know Frost spent a lot more effort keeping in public contact with the player community, but I had to deal with the other side of him.
Frost was flagrantly incautious with server tools, relied too much on empirical evidence instead of understanding, and demanded far more of others than he was ever willing to do himself.

(To finish, for those who are waiting to throw "fireworks" when/if this ends badly, I’m sorry, but we don’t need players like that)

Yes you do...you need every single one of us who have stuck this thing out.

I have to agree with SD here. I know both players and developers have left because they didn't want to have to deal with a vocal subset of the players.

Dawn...what else are we supposed to do? What can a player do?

What do you think the TMWC is? We are just players who devoted enough time to get a position.

With melkior's loss there will be a particular need for another GM, since now there are only 2 active GMs.

We have no say in what goes on in the back rooms on the IRC.

We do not make very many decisions in the private forums and the private IRC channel. Mostly, it's abuse reports, confirmations, and infrastructure.

I have two piece of advice though:

• don't oppose everything.
• don't abuse procedure.

We have no say in when a random admin decides to implement some change that they didn't bother to discuss with the community.

Other than the case-insensitivity thing, which I did discuss (though there really wasn't any other outcome), what changes are you still seeing from the update? I'm aware that there are small details, but ...

Maybe the other dev meetings were different but I don't really want to sit through another one of him stroking his own ego.

Can you give citations on this? I don't think like a normal human so I can't tell.

[Dyna]

The answer would be to volunteer for filling the vacant position on the TMWC.

But that would also require that you learn some skills which help with the development or maintainance of TMW. All TMWC members used to be normal players until they qualified themself by volunteering to get work done.

You can complain and protest all you want, but that won't change the fact that TMW is run by those who work for it. When you want influence, you have to earn it.

Crush...I don't think you understood what I was asking. Joining TMWC turns you into not-a-player or have you not noticed how many devs fail to log in anymore? Or how many of our admins are never around in game? No thank you...TMWC is failing and why on earth would I want to join that sinking ship? So I can try to bail the water til my arms get tired?

I asked what a player can do...not what a Dev or an Admin or a GM...a player and the answer remains the same...nothing.

[Crush]

why on earth would I want to join that sinking ship?

To fix the holes, pump out the water and get it sailing again?

But I agree, watching it sink from the shore while shouting suggestions is easier and more comfortable.

[Dyna]

Telling us to go learn something and come back isn't the answer. Telling us that our only option is to join up with the group that is strangling everything isn't the answer. Not everyone wants to be management, not everyone wants to be TMWC but everyone is a player.

Again...the average player, all we can do is sit on the shore and watch it sink. What else have you given us to do?

So we sit and wait and watch, hoping the game doesn't suddenly go away.