The Mana World Forums

I think the use of the eAthena SVN of their project, it's could be a good adiction to TMW, now we use the eAthena RC5, it's too old, i know, we are making a new server, but, for now, it's a good idea, ultil the 0.1 server will take some time to be released.

Well it's my opinion ...

strikerbcb wrote:I think the use of the eAthena SVN of their project, it's could be a good adiction to TMW, now we use the eAthena RC5, it's too old, i know, we are making a new server, but, for now, it's a good idea, ultil the 0.1 server will take some time to be released.

Well it's my opinion ...

The docs say RC3.

Rotonen and I are working on using the new code.

Hi,

now I am a little confused. Would using the tme eAthena not make tmw into a tme derivative and therefore eligible for using their graphics again according to their new licence? (Not that I think that this is necessarily the right idea, but it seems to invalidate the point of the licence change.)

-- fate

fate wrote:Hi,

now I am a little confused. Would using the tme eAthena not make tmw into a tme derivative and therefore eligible for using their graphics again according to their new licence? (Not that I think that this is necessarily the right idea, but it seems to invalidate the point of the licence change.)

-- fate

No. We'll just be using the server software. We have no intentions to use their content or clone them.

Before trying to find loopholes we should first wait until the Aethyra guys published the exact wording of their new license terms.

Seriously Crush, what kind of an attitude did you expect to see from us with the way you acted on IRC yesterday? The code and client is under GPL, as is your art, but that doesn't mean that our own original pieces have to be also. Have you ever heard of games like Planeshift? Or for that matter, by the logic that you used yesterday, you don't own anything that you've done: eAthena does. Think about that for a moment before you flame me on that. You don't own us, just like eAthena doesn't own you, so stop acting like it. If we've modified anything that was from your content, or if we got it from your forum, then yes, you have a right to it. But for everything else, hands off! I don't think you realized it, but you pushed most of our content designers yesterday from feeling fairly cooperative to being hostile towards you. If you would have been a little better behaved and kept the arrogence to a minimum, most of this wouldn't have happened. Don't bother looking for loopholes, as we're going to keep content changes private to us and our forks, thank you very much.

P.S. I see that you still haven't honored my copyright requests on the wiki. You guys only liscenced your content recently. Up until then, no rights had been rescinded. Delete my content or revert it to a version that I haven't touched. However, I did change my mind on one aspect. You can keep my edits on the servers page. Also, unless you can get the permission from every author who had contributed before you put up the liscence agreement, you must legally delete it! There's no loophole around that.

EDIT: While we will continue to accept artwork as long as it's not too restrictive for our own use, everything at the moment is now GPL and Creative Commons. However, that doesn't mean that we will require everything to be in the future. So please check SVN comments and image comments in order to be able to avoid complications with your own licensing requirements in the future.

You were always hostile towards the TMW development team. Frustration with our priorities was the reason why you made your fork in the first place:

http://aethyra.com/index.php?title=About_Aethyra wrote:it became evident that it was taking far too long for the elitist development team at The Mana World to implement good tested-content. They made excuses and treated the long-awaited custom server TMWServ as the answer to all the problems, and left the eAthena server (which The Mana World still runs on) to rot. Many development team members lost interest in helping, and the programmers forsook the eAthena server saying that it would simply delay TMWServ progress for months to fix the simplest of errors. In response to this, The Mana Experiment became a fork project, and an official game server.

But nevertheless I can not understand why you describe my "attitude" as "arrogant" or why you accuse me of trying to make claims of "owning" you. I even gave you advice how to formulate your license terms and copyright notices in a way that you can keep the content you made yourself to yourself and how you can avoid further misunderstandings regarding the copyright status of your work.

Frustration does not equal hostility.

The server migration to a newer eAthena started well before this episode taking place. In no way is it a loophole attempt. We're just using the GPL to our advantage: our current testing platform is leaky and crappy and we'd like to get rid of the text database and probably even use a nice shiny control panel. Having a slightly manageable testing platform would allow us to provide better pseudo/filler content out there until we can actually start working on TMW when we push tmwserv out.

A more recent eAthena version helps with these short term goals. I see no problems for technical cooperation here.

Also I don't think TMW as a project can have an opinion or act a certain way, we just don't work that way. We are a loose band of individuals, a mob if you will. Which brings us to our greatest weakness: responsibilities or rather the lack of them.

As a sidenote I'm slowly getting the feeling I should start hanging around your IRC channel as the interphase between the projects to avoid further friction.

I don't know how about all this, why the two projects not colaborate ? All will gain with this, the opensource software it's make for this. The eAthena software is opensource, the TMW is opensource, and the Aethyra i think it's opensource too. Why not all together work for make each project the best possible ?

I think the Aethyra can be unique, by making new maps, new graphics, and new scripts. The TMW have many good artists and make the graphics of the project, the Aethyra will not have your graphics 'stolen' by the TMW this is impossible. But i think if have one or more things that interest the TMW team, why not talk about this, the Aethyra use ALL material of tmw, it's a good and polite action to do, help this project too ...

One more time it's my opinion of this 'fight' for rights ...

We're making TMW (which is not what you see online) and they're making Aethyra.

Kind of ruins all other kind of cooperation besides sharing pixel artists. Which is an asset kind of rare in the wild.

Rotonen wrote:We're making TMW (which is not what you see online) and they're making Aethyra.

Kind of ruins all other kind of cooperation besides sharing pixel artists. Which is an asset kind of rare in the wild.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you said. But what about coders? Both use roughly the same software so it's possible to share coders. Improvements in the code are shared between the two already.

There are different practices and as I've understood, they're not exactly compatible with each other. They're also quite fast forking away from us. So we need to leach the eAthena server solution while we still can.

I would have helped in doing original pixel art for tmw if there had been a request for it. Just as scraggy helps tmw and aethyra. It is not that I don't wish to help tmw at all it is just I don't want aethyra to be the same as tmw graphic wise.

Crush wrote:There is also the plant monster from Evol Online (whichs copyright status is still unclear to me)

I agree that our copyright status about contents we released under EvoL wasn't so clear... Anyway, I've changed my mind.

EvoL is currently down as most of you noticed it. I'm working on a new release and EvoL will start again with a different policy. I will release all the work done before under GPL (except musics wich aren't from me, and I've lost contacts with the author...). So if you still have one of our release arround, feel free to use our ressources...or wait for the new Evol.