dark con potion in game?

[bell chick]

i thought these werent implemented yet but theres one for sale on mm for 4.5 kk.

[Hello=)]

Really. How the heck it appeared? Item ID = 745. I've attempted to grep GM logs, but at very most I can find @item for some "usual" potions. How this dark conc. potion appeared in game? Wiki says it "unreleased" .

[wushin]

Some items are still in the client data and server data, for legacy reasons. unreleased item is a script meant to stop you for using it.

[Hello=)]

Some items are still in the client data and server data, for legacy reasons. unreleased item is a script meant to stop you for using it.

This still does not explains how it has appeared in game and in shop...

[melkior]

A fairly long time ago, it was possible to create unknown items through an exploit (which has been patched up). An unknown item is basically an item with an ID that's not in use yet. But over time, as more items were added to the item DB, some of those unknown items have turned into newly added items. I myself used to have such an item — it turned into a Moubotaur Head.

[SriNitayanda]

Items that were aqcuired by exploiting a bug are to be removed as soon as possible, if you ask me.

hmmm... didn't you just exploited the mechanics of the game not so long ago to gain enormous amounts of money in very short time? it seems that by your logic, all the money you earned should be given back... or the items you acquired by getting this amount of money, are you ready to give the money or the items back?

bugs and exploits happen, i dont remember anyone asking us to give back the money we made taking advantage of one, i dont remember anyone asking monomu to give back the piece of clay he won in brodomir.

yeah if there is an ongoing exploit it should be fixed like it was in our case or in monomu's case. but if some players still hold items from this exploits, items which gives them zero advantages in regular game play i dont see any reason to remove them from the game. as i see it, its the paycheck unofficial testers get in finding bugs.

all the game changing items which are mostly illia items, can be gained by doing a quest, items you can acquire by enormous amounts of money are usually useless for regular gameplay.

yes illia items can be bought with money, but there is an alternative for players who are not rich, which is making another 90 alt. most of the people i know who didn't get the item they wanted in illia made another 90 alt to get it and usually they get it in this method.

[melkior]

Oh well the fact that at least one member of tmwc gave in to owning an item of that kind motivates me to remind everyone to consider their personal amount of bias on that matter...

I myself used to have such an item — it turned into a Moubotaur Head.

I don't own such an item. Like I said, I used to. I was talking about something that took place 4-5 years ago. A lot of people had unknown items back then, they weren't that rare. When mine turned into a Moubootaur head, I notified a GM (Katze), to contact an admin (Bjørn), to have the item destroyed.

I wasn't declaring the ownership of such an item, I was giving t3st3r a possible answer to his question.

Four or five years ago, this game was a very different place, there was no TMWC. In fact, most of the members of TMWC haven't even started playing yet, so, don't drag TMWC into this.

But, you know, thanks for accusing me, and putting your personal spin on things.

[WildX]

Has there ever been a tmwc decision on that matter?
Oh well the fact that at least one member of tmwc gave in to owning an item of that kind motivates me to remind everyone to consider their personal amount of bias on that matter...

All these ridicolous attempts to criticise TMWC at any possible opportunity are not even entertaining anymore, cut it out.

[melkior]

I honestly don't think this is a big issue. Unreleased items can't be used, so, even if you had Assassin Pants, you wouldn't be able to get any bonuses from them.

I don't see why people shouldn't own unique items. There is no rule stating that every item in the game should be obtainable by everyone.

Until they get officially introduced, they're just vanity items. If someone is willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money on such an item... *shrugs*

[bell chick]

Until they get officially introduced, they're just vanity items. If someone is willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money on such an item... *shrugs*

the balance issue isnt the owning of the itmes but more that someone can make a lot of gp selling what amounts to a glitch. gp isnt as easy as when you were a new player mel. its gotten rathe difficult to get millions. for many of usdreams of scarabs and high priest crowns are impossible dreams and for someone to be able to make 5kk off a glitch doesnt seem fair and balanced at all

[AnonDuck]

Think it of as a lottery. The server used to randomly give out strange items.. It was pretty common, and mostly by chance. People ending up with unreleased items just got lucky.

If someone wants to pay a massive amount of gp for a completely unusable vanity item.. who does that harm? If you don't have the money for a vanity item, don't buy it. If you're selling one and someone buys it, cool.. You probably have a lot of GP anyway as you're a very old player. It has no real effect on the economy or gameplay.

Plus it's neat having a few unreleased items floating around. Gives people a reason to make the face.

(As an aside, the same people always complain when someone through skill or luck has a perceived "advantage" over them.. I guess we should cap all stats at 50, all GP at 1mil, and remove all buffs on weapons or something?)

[Hello=)]

Think it of as a lottery. The server used to randomly give out strange items.. It was pretty common, and mostly by chance. People ending up with unreleased items just got lucky.

If you got some billions of "GPs" on your bank account "by chance" and without doing anything reasonable, only thanks to bugs in banking systems, in most jurisdictions it is invalid idea to spend these "GPs" or give them to someone else. Doing so usually violation of laws and can get you jailed if caught. Since there was no lottery events resulting in such items, its does not looks like its valid to possess such lottery results either. And selling such items even more dubious (looks like "black" money "washing" scheme).

Btw: after some GM logs analysis I only found single person who dared to (ab)use GM commands to introduce expensive items for nothing. It has been Platyna. Yes, really bad example of abusive admin. One of reasons I'm happy Platyna is gone. Other GMs/devs have been fair in this regard and generally haven't created costly items except to replace items lost by players due to technical errors. So I think abusing bugs to gain personal advantage is a bad idea, especially if it comes to one-shot making of 4+ M without time-consuming actions to obtain them. If I would start (ab)using all bugs I know, game would be unplayable and/or look like minefield .

As for (ab)using illia to earn some GPs: generally its not considered to be seller's fault if some buyer is willing to buy some items at strange prices. It's really up to buyers. Since items were obtained by using legitimate game mechanics, spending some time to do so and facing some challenges, it's just unthought NPC prices setup. Not something players could be blamed for, eh? Players are not responsible for these prices and used 100% valid game mechanics in ways it has been meant to. The fact it has turned out it can give excessive reward: its not 1st time for illia quest. Lets remember it had secondary rewards some ages ago. Then it has turned out to be bad for economy, so it no longer a case. If money made on illia should be revoked, I guess secondary illia items (i.e. all non-major artefacts) should be revoked as well - these were excessive rewards either. However, these rewards still required some time. efforts and skills to obtain. On other hand, getting unique item without any measurable efforts and one-shot selling it at 4M+ is a really blatant abuse of bugs.

[SriNitayanda]

Players are not responsible for these prices and used 100% valid game mechanics in ways it has been meant to.

Same logic can be applied to the unknown items player got, idk if they used 100% game mechanics to get these, but they were not responsible for turning these unknown items to unreleased items.

Edit:
besides it seems like this item rot on manamarket... it doesn't seem like unreleased items got such high demands that players can actually take such an advantage using them. if someone actually buys it he probably got lots of money like some people already said. and if someone got one he is probably very old player who already have lots of money.

Another point is that players can actually make money with small effort, selling items which are not obtainable anymore, i dont really see a big difference between old rares and unreleased items.

[Hello=)]

Same logic can be applied to the unknown items player got, idk if they used 100% game mechanics to get these, but they were not responsible for turning these unknown items to unreleased items.

IMO not so obvious statement. With illia its at least debatable if efforts taken by players were worth of reward amount awarded for these actions. After all, its a long and dangerous quest, costly to launch, etc and it still takes some time. This is why it took so long to recognize rewards could be excessive. And its at least 2nd time rewards were reduced. But in mentioned case with items its quite clear players were not taking actions to justify >4M GPs gain in one shot.

Another point is that players can actually make money with small effort, selling items which are not obtainable anymore, i dont really see a big difference between old rares and unreleased items.

The difference is: for rares someone took their efforts to get them on some event. Then they could elect to trade it for some GPs covering these efforts. Nothing wrong with it IMO. But I have reasons to doubt if someone undertook any special efforts to get items like this and if these efforts could anyhow justify one shot gain of Ms of GPs. Looks like blatant abuse of ingame bugs.

All these ridicolous attempts to criticise TMWC at any possible opportunity are not even entertaining anymore, cut it out.

Except there are some valid reasons behind this. Just one noteworthy example: many TMWC members think its okay to run some completely bastardized client ("TIM" aka The Improved Mana), capable of violating all imaginable sorts of game rules "by design" (there is built-in bot, automations of all kinds, etc). Needless to say, rules violations happen, usually because of client configuration or usage mistake(s). While these are usually not a big deal (so I would not insist on punishment), let admit there were cases when "usual" players were BANNED on similar cases. So in general, it could look like if TMWC members (and/or Phoenix, which are strongly correlated anyway) could expect some discounts in rules application and generally thinking its completely okay to put self over others, run bastardized clients and eventually violate ingame rules due to client misconfiguration or bad usage. And that nobody would notice it, etc. He-he, wrong, some players aren't too bad in detecting automations and able to read the rules . And yes, such state of things isn't good for reputation.

[AnonDuck]

Another point is that players can actually make money with small effort, selling items which are not obtainable anymore, i dont really see a big difference between old rares and unreleased items.

Yeah that's pretty much what I mean. It adds fun and trade to the game and doesn't hurt anything. Heck you can actually *use* old rares, but if you try to use an unreleased item it will delete itself from your inventory! Harmless.

Buyer beware though..