I was scammed by Holako, and need help please!

[Dustman]

Hello TMW gang,

I have a problem and I need help. Yesterday, 05.09.16, at around 20:20 server time, I was in the Hurnscald general store, when a player named Holako asked me if I had a Witch Hat, and if I would lend it to him. I told him I had one, but it was not my hat, since it was lend to me from Crazyfefefe. I said I could not lend something I did not own. Then he asked if I owned a Funky Hat, and if I would lend him that. I told him that I did own a Funky Hat, but did not know him well, and really did not want to lend him my rare hat. But he continued to ask me, and said he only wanted to try the Funky Hat, just to test it. He was a player I had seen from time-to-time in the game, and he seemed sincere, so I trusted him and finally said yes.

When I gave him my Funky Hat, he acted happy and starting running around the store. But when he went outside with the Funky Hat, I whispered to him to please come back, and not to go away with my rare hat. He responded by answering "ok now", but then he went offline.

I was completely SHOCKED and really confused by what had happened. I wrote about the matter to Starchild and some of my CRC guild members. (Starchild, Rift Avis, Zefranga, and James1 were also present in the general store at the time.) I was very upset, and could not understand why Holako had done this to me. So I went offline for about 30 minutes or so, and then checked the online list and saw that Holako was back online. I logged in really fast and whispered to Holako to please give me back my Funky Hat. But I got no response, and 10 minutes later he was offline again.

I logged off, and after awhile I looked again at the online list and saw that Holako was back online. I logged back into the game and whispered to Holako again. But again, I got no response, and after a few minutes he went back offline.

That is the story about how I got "scammed". At first I thought that Holako was just playing a game, and would eventually give me back the Funky Hat. But now I see that is not the case.

As you know the Funky Hat is a rare, and for me it is a very valuable and prized possession. I know some of you are thinking that I should be punished for being so trusting and lending my rare hat to someone. But I gave the Funky Hat to Holako in good faith that he would return it, and he cheated me. Rather than punishing me, all I want is to be treated fairly and for someone to please, please get my Funky Hat back to me.

Thank you all for considering my request.


Dustman


Here is the dialog from the Chat discussion with Holako:

Spoiler:

RAW Paste Data

[20:15] Holako: Dustman how you got these all rares?
[20:16] Dustman: trading and lvl up alts
[20:16] Dustman: and then sell the rewards
[20:16] zefranaga: whaytnow
[20:16] james1: i dunno
[20:16] james1: do you have the astral soul skill?
[20:16] Dustman: then tipe at the spell "/me hugs"
[20:16] Holako: do you have witch hat
[20:16] zefranaga: no
[20:16] Dustman: and then allow target
[20:16] Dustman: only lend from fefe
[20:17] james1: what level are you?
[20:17] zefranaga: wana get astral spells
[20:17] zefranaga: 34
[20:17] Dustman: after that you can spekk the heart when you target that person and make the spell
[20:17] Holako: itis my rare i like
[20:17] james1: gain one level then you can get the skill
[20:17] zefranaga: ok
[20:17] Dustman: yeah its nice one
[20:17] Dustman: i try get one too
[20:17] james1: [@@https://www.themanaworld.org/index.php/Spells |https://www.themanaworld.org/index.php/Spells@@]
[20:17] Holako: can you lend me it to wear
[20:17] james1: that is where you get all spells
[20:18] Dustman: i can ask fefe
[20:18] zefranaga: ok brb
[20:18] james1: ok
[20:18] Dustman: but i dont lend rares that i have lend from others
[20:18] Dustman: i candt do that
[20:18] Starchild: and me?
[20:18] Dustman: joojojojo
[20:18] Dustman: sure
[20:18] Holako: ok
[20:18] Dustman: mabe
[20:18] Starchild: mabe babe
[20:18] Dustman: fefe know you
[20:18] Starchild: :p
[20:18] Starchild: ok fail
[20:18] Starchild: another time
[20:19] james1: brb
[20:19] zefranaga: ok lets go
[20:19] Holako: Dustman why lot of player wear funky hat like 4414
[20:19] Dustman: i think cause its nice rare
[20:20] Holako: itis yours or lend from some one
[20:21] Dustman: no its mine
[20:21] Holako: can you lend me it to wear
[20:21] Dustman: idk i dont know you so good
[20:22] Holako: then how you lend peoples things and them lend you
[20:22] Holako: how you trust anyone?
[20:22] Dustman: i lend ppl something when i played some houre with them or know them good
[20:23] Holako: oh just test them
[20:23] Dustman: for example with fefe that lend me monster skull and witch i skype with him 1 time each day
[20:24] Dustman: sure
[20:24] Holako: all i have that isis i bought it from mm by 8 kk that all i have on that game andrare [@@801|Pinkie Helmet@@]
[20:24] Dustman: isis is nice
[20:25] Starchild: fatty
[20:25] Starchild: >>>
[20:25] Starchild: cant hug him
[20:25] Rift Avis: Oh hey it's Dustman!
[20:25] Starchild: ugh
[20:25] Rift Avis: I knaw that person
[20:25] Dustman: heyyy
[20:25] Dustman: i know you too
[20:25] Dustman: long time ago
[20:25] Starchild: go fishin
[20:25] Rift Avis: In a galaxy far away
[20:25] Starchild: 1/10
[20:25] Starchild: 1/20
[20:25] Starchild: end
[20:25] Starchild: hmmm
[20:26] Dustman: holako is happy
[20:27] Dustman: !online

[20:27] Dustman: pls come back XD
[20:27] Holako: ok now
[20:27] Dustman: jep☺
[20:28] Dustman: XD
[20:28] Dustman: pls dont run away with my rares XD
[20:28] Flüstern konnte nicht gesendet werden, Holako ist offline.
[20:29] Dustman: ?

[21:12] Dustman: dude
[21:12] Dustman: pls come back to town and give me my funky back=)
[21:15] Dustman: ?
[21:21] Dustman: Holako?

[21:38] Dustman: ?
[21:38] Flüstern konnte nicht gesendet werden, Holako ist offline.

[22:33] Dustman: hey
[22:34] Dustman: are you joking with me?
[22:34] Dustman: why you go all the time offline when i want my funky back?
[22:36] Dustman: man
[22:40] Dustman: is that here a hide and seek ?

[omatt]

This is sad story, it's clear dusty was too gentle and trust people of tmw are only good guy. Seem Holako abused of dustman's trust.
But let Holako answer. I'm sure we want to know why he do that. We know he check the forum, he asked recently for a contributor shirt.

[WildX]

I have discussed this issue with many people yesterday, although never with you directly - sorry about that. Unfortunately, this type of scam is exactly what GMs always warn players about, as it's not punishable. Holako asked for an item in exchange for nothing and you agreed to the trade. The fact that you did this trusting that Holako would return the item is unfortunately not enough to warrant a ban or even a refund on your loss.

I'm terribly sorry about this, but Holako cannot be punished beyond what this incident will do to their reputation. As for returning your item, the issue here is that if GMs became known for giving items to anyone who claims they have been scammed, they would eventually be scammed themselves by players who make up stories about being scammed in order to get free items. As we cannot always prove that scams like these have really happened in the way they have been described, the general rule that we can apply equally to all is to not refund items at all.

Again, I'm sorry about this and I wish there was another way. I know what you did was in good faith and I hope that others can learn from your mistake.

Spoiler:

One note as a former CRC Captain: one thing I can think of is digging through the CRC inventory to see if we have any spare Funky Hats. We could run a poll and see if the majority of the clan would agree to donate this item to Dustman. Guilds/clans are always the best way to organise this type of things.

[omatt]

I agree with WildX.
But Dustman can't keep silent on this. We can't encourage people to abuse trust of players.

[WildX]

Indeed. If anything this post will serve to warn other players about this specific player and to not lend items in general. I've lent items before to people I really trust, but we both ended up forgetting about it after a few weeks and I still haven't got those items back. It's always a bad idea to lend items; and it's an even worse idea if you don't know the person well.

Do not give your items away unless you are prepared to accept you might not see them again.

[Ginaria]

I just say, if it was really a scam, then we must try to help. I dislike, if trusting will be punished and scammers will be protected! Thats not Manaworld!

[Pawneeboy]

+1 To Dusty for reporting this

[WildX]

UPDATE: https://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtop ... 20&t=19782 see this post. This report has been dealt with as best as we could. Moving to Player Talk for further discussion.

[Rill]

I just say, if it was really a scam, then we must try to help. I dislike, if trusting will be punished and scammers will be protected! Thats not Manaworld!

First of all, thank you Ginaria for your brave comments.

Secondly, I have been a member of TMW since 2011, and am currently a Captain in the Guild of the Crew of Red Corsair (CRC). I, too, have spoken to many people about this incident. But most of the people I have spoken to are those who play the game on a daily basis, especially the good crewmates of CRC, and they want to see justice done.

Dustman (Dusty) has been a CRC crew member for over a year. He is a kind and generous player, and has many friends both within and outside of the guild. Dusty may have made a mistake in trusting Holako, but he did not commit a scam. That distinction goes to Holako, who has shown by his actions to be a liar and a cheat. And unless someone with the power to do so steps in and does something, Holako will have been rewarded for his scam by getting to keep Dusty's rare and valuable Funky Hat.

So for those of you who think that Dusty got what he deserved for being naive and trusting, and for getting tricked out of his valuable rare, then you must also believe that Holako the scammer is worthy of being rewarded by getting to keep the item he lied and cheated to acquire. And that, my dear friends, is no way to keep honest and decent players faithful to a gaming community.

[WildX]

We cannot favour certain players over others because they are respected, it is not equality. We fully sympathise with Dusty AND I don't think Holako has been rewarded at all. They are now a known scammer.

[Pawneeboy]

I do think there should be consequences, such as (and to tell you the truth this is merely an hand slapping) a Perma Manamarket ban to all of the listed and future characters/accounts of Holako/MinD.

[Rill]

We cannot favour certain players over others because they are respected, it is not equality. We fully sympathise with Dusty AND I don't think Holako has been rewarded at all. They are now a known scammer.

Never did I say that a player should be favored because he or she is respected. I am merely a witness to Dusty's good character.

Second, and with all due respect, if the acquisition of a rare Funky Hat by trickery and deceit is not a reward for wrongdoing, I don't know what is.

And by the way, CRC does not have a Funky Hat in storage.

[Micksha]

Dusty is one of the most trustworthy players and a very good crewmate to me, and he has always been. What happened here is very bad, it poisons the (small) community of active TMW players.
I understand WIldX's concerns on players trying to get free items if Dusty gets his Funky Hat back, BUT in my opinion if the GM team in charge of judging such issues requests logs and witnesses, it should not be too difficult to divide between real scams and players pretending they have been scammed.
...
A few more comments:
- once I managed to trade a bull helmet against a beret with an alt of MinD I did not know it was him. It felt like tricking him, so I gave it back. Here are some quotations of the discussion, to prove MinD did to Dusty exactly what he accused me to do before:

[20:05] MinD.Deadly: thats sucks and when my friend scam on me just to have bull helmet or just have some kk then why i played game
[20:08] MinD.Deadly: np man but donot think that me or anyone have rares or have items that had it for easy way
[20:12] MinD.Deadly: just cuz every player lend me something when iam noob player i gave it back to him and donot take it from him

- I strongly ask Holako to comment on this issue. I would highly appreciate this to be clarified personally between the players.
- Even if returning the Funky Hat to Dusty is not possible for the GMs, can you simply delete Holako's stolen hat? It feels not fair to let him keep that stolen item (especially if he does not respond to this issue in the forums.. no comment is also a comment imo).

Hope it still can be resolved in a way everybody can agree.

[Pawneeboy]

Can a kinda WOT or reputation points system be setup to possibly curve any future incidents, to elaborate maybe a thumbs up or down system here on the forums? If so maybe if a person has a high enough reputation the GM's could award the player a replacement item? This is just an idea i came up with that i think would be more fair than doing nothing, what with a new game coming up.

[WildX]

We cannot accept player's recommendations of good character when dealing with these things. Next time something similar happens, how can we quantify how many players "with good reputation" we need to vouch for the next victim? How can we deny the same help to somebody else because they're not as popular as Dustman? The issue here is setting a precedent that will make future scams impossible to deal with. This type of scam can be successful. This is why players are warned so much about it.

Now, it seems to me that the person who accepted this outcome more easily out of everybody is Dusty himself. We talked and, while not happy about it, he seemed to have understood the issue and made peace with it. If anything, this situation has served to show how we can be a friendly and supporting community when someone we respect is in trouble. I like my Funky Hat, but good friends are more valuable! Cheesiness over.