Dear TMW Community.

A place for players to do role playing, discuss their guilds, etc.
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 11 Mar 2013, 22:15

Ginaria, if you think that I will do a banfest and Jenalya and Frost will get banned, cut on firewall and removed from game, then you quite don't know me...

What I always were doing (and what I am doing now) was only and always with the wellness of the project on my mind, and I am not going to take any actions which may harm the project, no matter who I like and who I dislike (as usual, all over these years).

Remember, that I basically always disliked o11c and I had my fights with Crush, but both were given high positions in game.


Regards.
bell chick
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by bell chick » 12 Mar 2013, 00:55

i think ginarias point platyna is that if it went back no senior dev or gm who voted against you is likely to remain in power or even want to after their decision is made. if the server was in fact transfered back where would we find devs? although i dont completely agree with the move a step back woud be devastating for the game
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WildX
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by WildX » 12 Mar 2013, 00:59

bell chick wrote:i think ginarias point platyna is that if it went back no senior dev or gm who voted against you is likely to remain in power or even want to after their decision is made. if the server was in fact transfered back where would we find devs? although i dont completely agree with the move a step back woud be devastating for the game
I don't think the devs would quit if we went back. Hell, some devs may even come back because of that.
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by bell chick » 12 Mar 2013, 01:19

.:WildX:. wrote:
bell chick wrote:i think ginarias point platyna is that if it went back no senior dev or gm who voted against you is likely to remain in power or even want to after their decision is made. if the server was in fact transfered back where would we find devs? although i dont completely agree with the move a step back woud be devastating for the game
I don't think the devs would quit if we went back. Hell, some devs may even come back because of that.
ypu do realize the most active devs tend to be on ghp right?
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 12 Mar 2013, 01:24

Not all of GHP was for this putsch, despite to what o11c said. And basically all agrees that o11c is indeed instable mentally and has a very bad temper.

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Nard
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Nard » 12 Mar 2013, 02:02

bell chick wrote:ypu do realize the most active devs tend to be on ghp right?
Are you able to tell us who is in GHP ?? :shock:
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
“There are two motives for reading a book; one, that you enjoy it; the other, that you can boast about it.” Bertrand Russell, Conquest of Happiness.
"If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy." Donald Knuth.
bell chick
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by bell chick » 12 Mar 2013, 02:08

Nard wrote:
bell chick wrote:ypu do realize the most active devs tend to be on ghp right?
Are you able to tell us who is in GHP ?? :shock:
npt fully but some devs have recently dropped in town that they voted so one can figure out a lot. my poit is senior devs voted for the move. which means senior devs would not welcome a return to platinum. so reasonably we can conclude that wed lose most senior devs if a return to platinum was implemented
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 12 Mar 2013, 02:16

Bell chick, first - most of them didn't took part in the voting, and some of them were less active and were told some lies or got some sort blackmailed (see the famous quotes of o11c).

Even such decent (as I thought) people like Frost and Jenalya, who I have trusted very much, are under the influence of o11c, and we already see that he can make up a nice fairytales like that about lag being Platinum specific (which is a blatant lie, as he and other devs were running the diagnostics that proven otherwise).

BTW: Now I learn, in a deep conspiracy, that the reason of lag is that eA sends duplicated packets...and they knew is since quite a while...

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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Frost » 12 Mar 2013, 02:39

Nard wrote:
bell chick wrote:ypu do realize the most active devs tend to be on ghp right?
Are you able to tell us who is in GHP ?? :shock:
As I understand it, GHP is
  • GMs (Big Crunch, Narus, mrgrey, Tiana, Prsm) (except Alons who is away)
  • admins (Frost and Jenalya)
  • content lead (Jenalya)
  • programming lead (o11c)
The reason why I'm unclear on the exact list of who is in GHP is that I never saw an official definition. Also, we have been working more as a "move team" recently, so we pull people in for certain help.
In the past, any decision made by others in GHP was always subject to interpretation and approval by Platyna, so GHP didn't seem so useful to me. Besides that, I talk with a lot of people, without regard for status or affiliation. Some of the people I most respect are not in that list.
You earn respect by how you live, not by what you demand.
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 12 Mar 2013, 02:46

Frost, did you got an an order from your master to pull the propaganda at any occasion?

I have always listened to what GHP has to say, including new member suggestions, I have given the access to server files to Jenalya etc. according to consultations with GHP, and basicaly all GMs were set (or refused) after GHP consultations.

The only decision I can recall, that was done against GHP is to allow developers to be GMs (which caused that disgusting putsch), and this decision was just proven to be right.

I was regulatory body of TMW for 7 years - always fair and impartial, led by a scientific method and experience, so I don't think if anyone will agree with a propaganda that I was a mindless dictator.

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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by blackrazor » 12 Mar 2013, 03:18

Wow. I am saddened to see this develop, and so quickly, in TMW.

I have the greatest respect for Platyna and her hosting of the Platinum iteration of this game for all these years. It is a lot of work, also behind the scenes where not everyone may fully appreciate the effort, but it is essential just the same. Yes, she can be dictator. But in my opinion, she was a benevolent dictator. I never once heard or saw her abuse her powers for personal gain, and she always seemed to act with care for the long term survival of the game. TMW has been around since 2004 (at least), and that is no accident. Even if she was less active, I always felt her eyes upon the game, watching and caring for us.

I have only good things to say about Frost also. He has been consistently fair in his rulings. He has animated the game in many ways. He admins with a calm level-headed mastery, and GMs as needed, in the same way. He has a calm self-control and analysis of situations (both technical and human) that I feel have won him much respect.

I am deeply saddened to find these two pillars of the community on opposite sides of such an important issue, that quite frankly, I would have hoped discussed at many channels (including the public forums) for months, before taking such major action.

There are many moving parts here, some still undefined and opaque, that really should be separate things, but are all combined together.

1) The GHP. Who is in the GHP. What is the method for entrance? What is the method for expulsion? What exactly are the powers of the GHP and how does that relate to the GPL nature of the game? How does the GHP decide issues; does it vote or reach consensus? Are all GHP members equal? What are the approved methods for resolving conflicts within the GHP?

2) TMW GPL licence and ownership. Is the GPL licenced codebase and art assets of the game separate from a specific iteration of the game running on a particular host? Does the host of a particular iteration of the game have specific rights to ownership of those particular datafiles? By iteration, I am referring to the savefiles / playerfiles and perhaps any custom content. Who owns Evol's iteration? Who owns Land of Fire's iteration? Who owns TMW-platinum's iteration? For some, this may be obvious, or moot, but I feel it deserves serious ethical scrutiny.

3) Should a host be granted specific rights of control that supercede those of the administrators ( ... or not) ? Should this be set out as a rule for all iterations of the game, or is this to be decided individually by each specific iteration of the game? What mechanism (if any) should exist to properly amend this formula of control, if need be, over time?

I believe that transparency and a clear path of operations, regarding these issues, and others, could provide valuable insights into how best to proceed (or how it could have / should have proceeded). How things are decided are as important, at least to me, as the technical stability or lag profile of a project.

Well, I wish you all the best. From a long-time player, I greatly appreciate all the work that many people put into this quite unique and wonderful enterprise, and I wish only good things for it, going forward. Godspeed.
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by *Delasia* » 12 Mar 2013, 03:38

Anyone who has played the game for 3 or more years probably recognizes my name.
I post today because I am sure that my pleasant and condesending tone will not disappear as it has in the past, and that while my obvious and notorious fondness for Platyna will not be met with tyranical deletions.

Platyna, please allow me to congratulate you for remaining ever vigilante in your demeanor, and personality over these past several years. Sometimes comfort is gained by knowing what to expect, and getting exactly that.

I have a question for the parties (server admins/owners) involved in this.
Has the procedure for the GIT repository changed?
Was the data deleted from Platinum? or merely copied?
Whats stopping Platinum from running simultaneously? I am sure that Platinums administrator has the means and the overwhelming prowess to "Pull" regular updates so that the "New" content on one server would propegate over.
There are, and have been multiple instances/servers running for years.

If players are that unhappy with the move then they have the choice to go back to wence they came, although I am sure that the profound diligence and scheduling of one will undoubtably affect the final decision.

Pointing out who has lied and about what could very well be a never ending political debate. SOME of us can recount many a flaw in peoples versions or recollections of truths. Some people still have screen shots and missives from "WAY BACK" that could and would weigh heavy on reality.

All of that said, all the necessary steps were taken to notify all the people involved.
News is news, just because we choose not to read it doesnt make it disappear or make it not so.

Platyna, get off your high horse and do what you gotta do. If you believe a law was broken then fix it. Stop the juvenile boohooing, name calling and idle threats. Your wasting your time and ours. Reality sucks, and the reality is, if people come back because your no longer hosting it good for them, if people leave because your no longer hosting it. Good for them, but at least they are not snivelling about it, and acting on what they feel they need to do.

To everyone else who feels they need to point fingers, whine and make threats.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by *Delasia* » 12 Mar 2013, 03:42

Platyna wrote:I was regulatory body of TMW for 7 years - always fair and impartial, led by a scientific method and experience, so I don't think if anyone will agree with a propaganda that I was a mindless dictator.
Definition of Propaganda :noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

No one ever accused YOU of being mindless.
bell chick
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by bell chick » 12 Mar 2013, 04:02

Even better. platyna move on, use your machines and make a game based on the manaserv platform thats been all but abandoned. if anyone has the skills to get a game going advertize it find decent devs and make it popular enough to keep going for years its you. be the david mustaine of tmw and say "you dont want me fine im going to make something even better and show you". turn the hurt anger and disgust into something good, productive and something thatll last. manaserv has been abandoned as far as i know and it was once the dream of this project. this could be a kick in the butt by destiny to bring the dreams of the project forward finally.
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MadCamel
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by MadCamel » 12 Mar 2013, 05:22

Guess I'll put in my two cents..

I've been around the block a time or 6 and have seen it many times. Egos clash, users(players) get upset at recent changes, the community suffers, and everything goes south. Lets not do that.

If you find yourself getting upset by the GHP's recent actions, please consider:
a) Are the players still having fun?
b) Are the developers still having fun?
c) Why so serious?

There's no conspiracy, people just want to have some fun doing what they like to do.

That said.. People near the top sometimes get a god complex that is detrimental to both the users and development community as a whole. When this happens, these people need to be asked to lighten up, or removed from their position. It happens even with the best of intentions, and I think the move by the GHP was a good one.

I would like to suggest however, that the previous situation with Platyna could easily repeat itself with the current server host. Let's not be so trusting in the future. I propose that daily backups of the tmwa database be made and sent to both elvenprogrammer(who owns the domain name) and at least one other VERY senior person such as him. This way, no matter what direction the project takes, or how big anyone's ego gets, there will always be options. It's also nice to have offsite backups anyway.
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