Swimming in Ocean Areas

[Johnny]

I know this is a ton of work and not at all easy, however if someone was to actually do all the work and add all the extra sprites for swimming motions, can it be possible on the server to do?

[Crush]

It would even be possible to do it entirely client-sided by setting the water tiles to walkable and modify the client to show the swim animation for beings which are on these tiles. Problems with this approach:
1. Everything is able to swim, there is no way to have players/monsters which can not
2. Swim speed = walk speed

But I guess what you want would be that some players and monsters can swim, some don't and the swim speed being slower than walk speed. Maybe also some changes to game mechanics for swimming beings. This would very likely require a lot of modifications on the server, because walkability is - as far as I know - handled on a strict binary basis. I was never involved in tmwAthena development, so you have to wait for o11c or another tmwAthena dev to give you an estimate.


I also see another problem with the map design you might not be aware of. For technical reasons, warps between maps must be kept small. On the current maps, many bodies of water work as intended physical barriers to define map borders. Allowing players to swim across rivers instead of walking across the bridges might be impossible in many cases. So it would be required to have swimable and un-swimable water anyway.

[o11c]

Brief answer: hell no.

The swim speed vs walk speed could be handled by and equip script (you must wear swim gear to swim)

That said, being able to swim in the ocean is a really bad idea. Swimming is really tiresome. Though, you could have a death field or a timer ...

On another note, the server has serious problems with separate "walkable" areas on the same map. This leads to e.g. the Yeti bug (I think).

At some point I'll solve the warp problem (stepping at this offset in the warp goes to the equivalent offset from the destination).

That only leaves the issue of being able to enter/exit the water, which I can't find a solution for, unless it was in a pond (possibly in a cave) instead of an ocean.

Having multiple walk types is something I'd like to see at some point, but it would break the client unless done with a REALLY ugly hack. Mind, the client consists entirely of really ugly hacks.

[Johnny]

Thats a shame. So for multiple walk types, it is posible in the future but would require a whole overhaul of not only the client but the server as well. I suppose this wouldn't be on the priority list as probably waiting until the server empties out a bit and using manaserv instead of eathena is pretty much at the top of the priority list.

[mistergrey]

Anyone ever played a Jak & Daxter game? Everything is entirely free roaming, including the oceans - however, go very far or for very long, and a large fish will eat you instantly.

Also, the speed skill increases walk speed... I'm sure there is some way to reduce it, though I'm sure the problem lies with it being slow Only for the swim animation...

[Reid]

I already get some though on this, but I get blocked to an other problem that o11c didn't mentioned.
The ocean area are somewhat used to set the outline of a map, (the 20pixels of collision rules that we need to put around the map), if the water is now walkable^W swimmable, what will be used to set the outlines?

Possible to use some rocks tiles as outline (Pokemon used this), or a limit where the player can't swim over(From memories I seen this in Two World)... But both options aren't realistic.

Edit: Mistergrey find a... Solution.

[mistergrey]

Equipping "Gills" or "Flippers" to swim would handle the swimwear bit. The outline could be more water, but an idea would be to have collision tiles sporadically placed around the edges, so players would be hitting "rocks" and be unable to continue. Still though, it'd be cooler to have shallow water and deep water - both walkable, but the deep water full of invincible monsters that WILL destroy you should you unwisely wander through .

[Johnny]

Hmm come to think of it you wouldn't even need to swim if it was set up like Sonic where you pretty much just walk underwater. That would mean when you touch the water it would probably just transition you to an underwater map where you walk slower. Likely you would need a snorkel equipped as an accessory to enter the water. Hmm that could be an idea as well without bothering having to have swimming motions at all.

[ZdlN]

There also can be a current (other watercolor) with the options make them kill you, float you away ore only make it not moveabel. Like in the real world you can not swim everythere
In TMW there are already many maps that reduce the warppoints with such things like trees and fences...

To avoid these

separate "walkable"

maybe there can be warppoint-like entraces to water. So you can maybe write a other map look like this map, or you only check on this points the equiped swim gear.
To avoid the swimming motions maybe the swim gear can make the hole body of the player invisible but the head. - so only the head looks other the water
Last to let the players not swim to long ways you can give the swim gear a poison-like funktion. So the player dies if he/she swim to long...

Only stupid ideas...
(sorry for my terrible english)

[Johnny]

I kind of just ditched this idea. I came up with a better one in which you won't have to swim in game. By using the Davinci Scuba Suit you can walk anywhere you want underwater. Though you can't access the water unless you obtain one.

[ZdlN]

If you have a "better" idea, so let not disturb you from others also think about this
But there i see nearly the same problems like this idea of swimming - only the swimming motions are away.

Good luck

[Johnny]

If you have a "better" idea, so let not disturb you from others also think about this
But there i see nearly the same problems like this idea of swimming - only the swimming motions are away.

Good luck

Sorry I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't mean your idea. I mean't my idea of the swimming wasn't a feasible idea for this game. Apparently, it isn't possible according to o11c, so I figured just walking on a map with a seascape tileset in a scuba suit would be something that actually may be possible with some work.

[Anonymous!!!]

If you have a "better" idea, so let not disturb you from others also think about this
But there i see nearly the same problems like this idea of swimming - only the swimming motions are away.

Good luck

Sorry I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't mean your idea. I mean't my idea of the swimming wasn't a feasible idea for this game. Apparently, it isn't possible according to o11c, so I figured just walking on a map with a seascape tileset in a scuba suit would be something that actually may be possible with some work.

Well, as great as it sounds it will require a bit of work...
If you want to make an underwater map then make sure to keep it fit in the game.
Maybe you can have an npc at tulimshar docks or something that will take the player out to go snorkeling or something.
If you setup a transparent water tile that you can setup for a top layer on a map that would give a good effect.
Bubble particles would also be nice.
I think it does need some purpose though.
Maybe that pirate near hurnscald could have hired a ship to transport some treasure for him but the ship sunk in the ocean.
There could be a treasure chest of some sort down there.
but back to your idea of walking around underwater... how would you make the collision border of the map?
you could make a drop off or something but keep in mind there needs to be something blocking the player going off the map.

I wish you luck in your idea

[Johnny]

If you have a "better" idea, so let not disturb you from others also think about this
But there i see nearly the same problems like this idea of swimming - only the swimming motions are away.

Good luck

Sorry I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't mean your idea. I mean't my idea of the swimming wasn't a feasible idea for this game. Apparently, it isn't possible according to o11c, so I figured just walking on a map with a seascape tileset in a scuba suit would be something that actually may be possible with some work.

Well, as great as it sounds it will require a bit of work...
If you want to make an underwater map then make sure to keep it fit in the game.
Maybe you can have an npc at tulimshar docks or something that will take the player out to go snorkeling or something.
If you setup a transparent water tile that you can setup for a top layer on a map that would give a good effect.
Bubble particles would also be nice.
I think it does need some purpose though.
Maybe that pirate near hurnscald could have hired a ship to transport some treasure for him but the ship sunk in the ocean.
There could be a treasure chest of some sort down there.
but back to your idea of walking around underwater... how would you make the collision border of the map?
you could make a drop off or something but keep in mind there needs to be something blocking the player going off the map.

I wish you luck in your idea

Well heres how it will work, first you need to purchase a scuba suit and have the right level requirements to have the rights to buy it. Second once you have it there will be an NPC on Tulimshar Beach who will stop you from going in the water unless you have "Divinci's Gear" which is the Scuba Suit and it must be equipped. Upon doing that you will walk to the water which will be a warp to the underwater map.

Borders that are underwater will be walls, high rocks and such. You can't just enter any area where you see water on the map. Think of real life. It would be like diving off a high cliff where you see water. So water can still border an area. You can enter underwater areas through beach shores or caves with shallow water leading into deep.

[ZdlN]

Sorry also from my side. I found the swim-idea a very nice one, and so i hoped i can be realized

An under water map is also a good idea - with the points to work on:
- special weapons (a bow under water not can be, maybe the brawling-skill is needed here then) or no monsters can attack you
- create a map there you are not abel to swich your clothes (also if the player not walk)

To block the players there are underwaterplants and cliffs like on normal maps possible.