Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [DIS]

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wushin
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by wushin »

Aye with MadCamel. IMO, the GMs would know best which bots are annoying and should be restricted. Solely based on the number of @wgm requests come in. I would rather let the final judgement call continue to land in the GMs hands.

We can make requests to the developers and/or maintainers of the bots and they will most likely understand as they should be the players. As one would assume any player using malicious bots would also be malicious themselves.

Table
IMO, Maybe table Items/Shops/Trades for now and leave that to the GMs judgement. The GMs and/or players can always come back for clarification.

Motion #1
Do we think it's safe to say for now that: guild, Manamarket are OK to run as they are now & give approval for at least CrazyTree to be allowed back?

Motion #2
1) Game Rules (Implied)

2) No afk activity is allowed that:
[*] gains xp, jp, bp or dp (Exp, Job, Boss, Daily points.)
[*] gains items from mob drops or questing

3) Bots based on functions may be asked to have limited restricted use.
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MadCamel
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by MadCamel »

4) Whoever finds a loophole in this gets slapped repeatedly with a chernobyl earthworm
j/k. Looks aight to me.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by Mikko »

wushin wrote:
2) No afk activity is allowed that:
[*] Has an effect on gameplay(gaining xp, items, assisting in combat etc.)

If TMW is going to remain a FOSS project, the bot must be released under an open source license. This is not up for debate.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by MadCamel »

How so? There are closed-source web browsers that connect to open-source webservers every day! I don't see apache.org blocking MSIE user-agents..
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by Mikko »

MadCamel wrote:How so? There are closed-source web browsers that connect to open-source webservers every day! I don't see apache.org blocking MSIE user-agents..
Because we shouldn't encourage the development of proprietary software if we can avoid it by not allowing it.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by gumi »

burn
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by wushin »

As much as we like to control the bot license we cant enforce for any other than the bots the game runs on the server.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by wushin »

wushin wrote:Aye with MadCamel. IMO, the GMs would know best which bots are annoying and should be restricted. Solely based on the number of @wgm requests come in. I would rather let the final judgement call continue to land in the GMs hands.

We can make requests to the developers and/or maintainers of the bots and they will most likely understand as they should be the players. As one would assume any player using malicious bots would also be malicious themselves.

Table
IMO, Maybe table Items/Shops/Trades for now and leave that to the GMs judgement. The GMs and/or players can always come back for clarification.

Motion #1
Do we think it's safe to say for now that: guild, Manamarket are OK to run as they are now & give approval for at least CrazyTree to be allowed back?

Motion #2
Player Run Bots:
1) Game Rules (Implied)

2) No afk activity is allowed that:
[*] Has an effect on gameplay(gaining xp, items, assisting in combat etc.)
[*] gains items from mob drops or questing

3) Bots based on functions may be asked to have limited restricted use.
Added mikko's better phrasing.

Note My motion was for Player Run Bots. i.e. Bots with no affiliation to TMW other than they work with TMW and login to the server.

Bot Adoption is a different rule set that does need to have more procedures and we can discuss on another thread. Bot Adoption is for TMW to gain control, maintain sources and host the bot.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by Salius »

I'm not more tmw player, but I want to put here one suggestion.

Remember: human players play with ManaPlus client, but bot is client software itself. You should enforce to bot not only player rules, but rules as for client software (if you have this rules). I mean bot can harm normal server working (overload with too frequent requests for example), you need to have this rules here for bots. Like requests per second limitations and other technical limitations, same as for manaplus client software.

Additional you can log all activity of this bot, then you can check does this bot something wrong or not.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by gumi »

Salius wrote: I mean bot can harm normal server working (overload with too frequent requests for example), you need to have this rules here for bots. Like requests per second limitations and other technical limitations, same as for manaplus client software.
IMO the server should have built-in protection against packet flood instead of trying to control bots because people that make harmful bots will not ask tmw's permission to DOS-attack it so the server should be able to handle it (ie by counting the packets and then blocking the IP for a period of time)
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by Salius »

meko wrote:IMO the server should have built-in protection against packet flood instead of trying to control bots because people that make harmful bots will not ask tmw's permission to DOS-attack it so the server should be able to handle it (ie by counting the packets and then blocking the IP for a period of time)
Your server have this feature now? May be for time until you add this feature to server (if it not added yet), need better control bots and other software, connected to server?
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by Cassy »

Is this set now?
Then we should add those rules to https://www.themanaworld.org/index.php/Friendly_Bots and protect the page.
Also we should add it to the game rules and link to this page.
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by MadCamel »

If there's no objections go ahead and do so
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by Mikko »

2) No afk activity is allowed that:
[*] Has an effect on gameplay(gaining xp, gaining items from drops or questing, assisting in combat etc.)
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Re: Tentative formal declaration of bot approval procedure [

Post by wushin »

The botting rules have passed, it's merely semantics being argued now. Make sure to note on the wiki page that GM discretion trumps all.

This thread is now the wiki post wording discussion.
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