[FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.

Keep everything or burn everything?

Migrate as much data as possible
52
58%
Migrate the bare minimum and compensate the players (see compensation thread)
37
42%
 
Total votes: 89
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by SDN » 18 May 2019, 03:10

I'm back! Whoa! So the whole migrating thing was started just right after I took a break. Awesome! XD

Anyway, I don't mind to start all over new but I vote for migrating user item data with account bound and/or adjusted stats if needed. The strongest item from tmw should have an equal stand against the strongest item in evol, avoiding unobtainable OP item or mock-able junk in the new environment. Their price and availability, however, can be tricky. Making them unobtainable but trade-able at very low price in game may just encourage some player to sell them offline (you know those kind of player exist, right?), and it will be an economy "time bomb" for evol in the future. Making them available through a quest at very high price may cause inflation wave in evol's economy. One possible solution its making them available through a costly quest or very rare drops from bosses for current evol players but the item is account bound (non trade-able) for both. That if evol have or accept the non trade-able item such as that, as they may have to adopt that system to their current highly valuable items too to keep the gameplay balanced.

As for player's stats, it's a must. Give tmw player their stats and skill points for their current level equal to evol system (ex: if evol use different skill system). I'm noob, but it would be sad to see if tmw's old timers forced to be a noob too in front of evol's players. :mrgreen:
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by t3st3r » 18 May 2019, 16:55

Translating levels is probably hardest to achieve and most perilous. Furthermore, TMW gameplay is extremely unbalanced. If someone doubts, as edge case, feel free to grab warrior and then have fun challenging archers or mages in pvp, this should get the very clear idea on balancing. Don't forget to report win vs lose score. And wouldn't it make sense to level once more to get feeling of new battle system? So speaking for myself I wouldn't insist on this part.

Furthermore, beyond main levels there're many others. Be it "magic XP" or focusing skills. Unless I'm nut, new server is meant to use e.g. magic based on "skills" (native to *athenas) rather than TMW's ad-hoc implementation. So in at least some points it could be there could be no 1 to 1 translation. Speaking for myself I wouldn't insist on that part and wouldn't mind leveling skills/level/etc if that helps getting gameplay more sanely balanced.

But items and TMW art overall... what TMW successor it would be without having TMW look and feel in at least some places?
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by WildX » 20 May 2019, 15:52

I understand why people don't want to start over, but do you really want to have your lvl 99 character with full gear just to sit in Hurnscald as usual? Even if all your items are imported and made account-bound so they don't wreck the new economy, are you not tired of having nothing to do in the game? Because that's what it would be like if your account is already max lvl in the new server.

To me the best compromise is to have people play until the first lvl cap (25-30ish) and THEN once they have gone through all the quests in the new server give them an option to have their old items transferred over. Kinda like old Pokemon games where you could transfer your high lvl Pokemon from previous games but only once you had completed the current game. As for character levels and money, it's just not possible. There will be new level caps with each release, meaning that your lvl 99 character would be way over the cap and gamebreakingly strong. Money is too delicate to balance and importing millions from an old server is the equivalent of printing money without any backup value.

Anyway, this is a very old poll. There will probably be a new one closer to the September release date.

P.S.
If you want everything to be exactly like on the Legacy server, you will be able to continue playing on that server. Your data will not be deleted. If at the end you're not satisfied with how much has been imported, just play on Legacy. It's the only way to ensure we don't just copy-paste all the bad stuff we're trying to get rid of and defeat the purpose of a new server.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by SDN » 20 May 2019, 23:44

WildX wrote:
20 May 2019, 15:52
I understand why people don't want to start over, but do you really want to have your lvl 99 character with full gear just to sit in Hurnscald as usual? Even if all your items are imported and made account-bound so they don't wreck the new economy, are you not tired of having nothing to do in the game? Because that's what it would be like if your account is already max lvl in the new server.
True, but at least players are given a freedom to choose after 'being moved' to a new environment. If they want to sit all day at max level, they can. If they want to play from ground zero, they're also free to make new alts. It's a merge process, so there should be some parts of the old env. blended into the new one, and that's not just the player. Of course some adjustment are needed to be done to keep the balance. I think there are several ways to achieve that, depends on how different the two systems are. But that is the dev job, not mine. Hahaha..... Anyway, if players have to or forced to start completely a new game, then TMW should've just declare that its being shutdown and their players can play other games they want with some goodie bags (if compatible). :D

But then again, i'm one of who's ok if I have to play from lvl 1. I did try Evol back then, still in noob island. I don't know how much is has changed, but I remember it's an interesting game indeed. :alt-0:
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by WildX » 21 May 2019, 23:01

SDN wrote:
20 May 2019, 23:44
True, but at least players are given a freedom to choose after 'being moved' to a new environment.
No one is being "moved", in the sense that your original character isn't going anywhere.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by t3st3r » 29 May 2019, 05:04

WildX wrote:
20 May 2019, 15:52
If you want everything to be exactly like on the Legacy server, you will be able to continue playing on that server. Your data will not be deleted. If at the end you're not satisfied with how much has been imported, just play on Legacy. It's the only way to ensure we don't just copy-paste all the bad stuff we're trying to get rid of and defeat the purpose of a new server.
TL;DR (after visiting test server recently): "art museums do not need gameplay". That's how so called "fusion" appeared to me so far. Maybe I terribly missed something though, there is always a chance.

Long and boring, it would boil down to:
1) What is meant to be "fused" and "merged" to justify such a vague (mis)use of words? "Feels" like misnomer to me so far.
2) I still don't get, is viable gameplay is part of plan? Are there 100s of epic items hidden in dev sleeves? When I've been on test server, I only found like 1.5 unexciting evol items. I can't get rid of impression "grand plan" of "fusion" is to trash TMW art, mumble "maybe replace it later", and then...
3) ...last time such crusade took place, o11c got rid of "bad stuff". So now there is superb choice in between of changing server software or trying to ride a dead horse.
4) TMW economy got playtested by alive persons, eager to get personal advantage. This imply most pressing bugs were ironed out and from purely technical point, I expect much lower bug rate on these grounds. Pretending totally new thing not tested by players would "fix" and "improve" something? I dare to tell it yet another misnomer - as person who is well aware what "bugs rate" means, etc.
5) Have you considered you do not necessarily know all goods and bads? Concrete example: Evol sprites look somewhat odd if player is about to sit on beds or chairs. Who would think players may want to lie in beds or sit on chars, right? Yet this habit is fairly common in TMW. I do think it adds up to gameplay. A little funny feature - that's what makes up gameplay, so players stay and return.
6) I've recently been on "so called merger" server. Looked much like usual evol - "tech demo". Have I missed something? Did something wrong? Or ...? Are these 1.5 evol items meant to make it exciting? Even TMW struggled a lot in this regard - and still does. That's all with ton of competitors. Oh, I absolutely loved 1 thing on that server though. Witch house basement... that looks really epic!!!

My "primary" concern really is: if players would find evol "merger" unexciting (and for some reasons I think it could happen), it would be 1 ManaServ at best or even 2 ManaServs at worst. There is likely some "point of no return": when # of active players drops below certain number, MMO action can't happen at all, so new players would get frustrated with it and leave. It already "quite challenging" on TMW server. Recenty it somewhat improved, most likely thanks to persons who held events. But it still hell a lot far from thriving community and what MMORPG is really meant to be.

...also if someone dislikes poll results, it nice idea to fiddle with it. Calling it old isn't worst idea ever, sure. Especially when there is no definition of "old" and "new", very convenient to call it "old" at will.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by WildX » 29 May 2019, 12:13

I'm going to try and answer all of your questions.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
1) What is meant to be "fused" and "merged" to justify such a vague (mis)use of words? "Feels" like misnomer to me so far.
The fusion is between the world of The Mana World (continent of Ancea with the locations from the game like Hurnscald etc.) and the world of Evol Online (continent of Aemil with Artis etc.); I disagee that it's a vague use of these words, there have been many very clear explanations of this, including the big link at the top of the forum board called "TMW-Evol Fusion" with almost 1000 redirects to a page that explains everything in detail.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
2) I still don't get, is viable gameplay is part of plan? Are there 100s of epic items hidden in dev sleeves? When I've been on test server, I only found like 1.5 unexciting evol items. I can't get rid of impression "grand plan" of "fusion" is to trash TMW art, mumble "maybe replace it later", and then...
Yes and yes. Viable gameplay is the main focus and one of the major benefits of moving to a brand new server. Starting from zero with gameplay and level progression will allow us to measure out a balanced and fun "journey to max level" for all characters. There are actually, as you said, hundreds of epic items hidden in our sleeves. The test server is for testing, some of these things either don't need testing or aren't ready for testing yet; if all of them were dumped on the test server at once we'd simply be releasing an unfinished version of the actual Hercules server. A game in development doesn't show off all of its new content before launch, it tends to spoil the surprise. As for trashing TMW art, I can tell you that at least myself and Micksha (who's in charge of art) are very focused on maintaining the "TMW feel" as we're both nostalgic TMW players who want to see classic beloved items, NPCs, places, etc. return in the new server. Some things (especially maps) will get some touch-ups or remakes if we think we can do better than what already exists, but at the end of the day we're trying to re-create everything that currently exists in TMW because it's a new server, not a new game.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
3) ...last time such crusade took place, o11c got rid of "bad stuff". So now there is superb choice in between of changing server software or trying to ride a dead horse.
You can mistrust new developers because of the actions of old developers. Platyna does it all the time. I think it's counterproductive to be hostile to anyone trying to take this project forward simply because some people years ago did things you didn't like. o11c hasn't been around for years and he left because his approach was not acceptable by the standards of most of his dev colleagues. I think all of the current devs are smart enough to not repeat the same mistakes.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
4) TMW economy got playtested by alive persons, eager to get personal advantage. This imply most pressing bugs were ironed out and from purely technical point, I expect much lower bug rate on these grounds. Pretending totally new thing not tested by players would "fix" and "improve" something? I dare to tell it yet another misnomer - as person who is well aware what "bugs rate" means, etc.
I completely disagree here. The current TMW economy has been broken by years of bug exploits that created very high inflation, bad item management by old dev teams that would give out items to players by spawning them with commands rather than creating quests and actual game content for them and poor planning of quest rewards through uncoordinated production of content. Starting from zero with the economy is the only way to fix these issues. There will surely be things to iron out in the future, but this time we can keep track of every problem as it comes instead of letting it sit for years and slowly make money meaningless in the game.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
5) Have you considered you do not necessarily know all goods and bads? Concrete example: Evol sprites look somewhat odd if player is about to sit on beds or chairs. Who would think players may want to lie in beds or sit on chars, right? Yet this habit is fairly common in TMW. I do think it adds up to gameplay. A little funny feature - that's what makes up gameplay, so players stay and return.
Evol sprites use the sitting position from current TMW sprites when sitting in beds and chairs. If they look odd, it's because the "original" sitting position was a bit odd-looking. Reid invented the Evol sitting position for that reason and decided to keep the old one as a secondary sitting position for beds and chairs to add a little flavour and life to the characters. It is exactly as you say, a little feature to spice up gameplay. I don't understand what you don't like about it.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
6) I've recently been on "so called merger" server. Looked much like usual evol - "tech demo". Have I missed something? Did something wrong? Or ...? Are these 1.5 evol items meant to make it exciting? Even TMW struggled a lot in this regard - and still does. That's all with ton of competitors. Oh, I absolutely loved 1 thing on that server though. Witch house basement... that looks really epic!!!
I'd be surprised if the test server looked like "usual Evol" to anyone since we've been focusing on TMW-specific content for the past year. You may have been spawned on an older map. Have you seen the Hurnscald and Argaes areas? Items, as I mentioned above, are not all on the test server. You can use /createitems to see which ones are available and you can test any of those out.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
My "primary" concern really is: if players would find evol "merger" unexciting (and for some reasons I think it could happen), it would be 1 ManaServ at best or even 2 ManaServs at worst. There is likely some "point of no return": when # of active players drops below certain number, MMO action can't happen at all, so new players would get frustrated with it and leave. It already "quite challenging" on TMW server. Recenty it somewhat improved, most likely thanks to persons who held events. But it still hell a lot far from thriving community and what MMORPG is really meant to be.
TMW can die just like anything else. There's no 100% sure way to prevent TMW from being abandoned forever. The best way to me is to continue to grow this world, add new content and provide a full game to the community. The only way to do this is to move away from the old tmwAthena server which is not only buggy and unstable, but as I've been saying it's also horribly unbalanced in many ways from years of uncoordinated development. I'm very hopeful that TMW will be a success. I think it has a special place in gaming as a timeless old-school MMORPG that also benefits from the Open Source world. I'm making a point of answering all of your questions in detail because if I can't convince you that our development plans are good, at least I can show you that we all personally care about TMW and that's the only reason we're here working on it. The biggest challenge for TMW is not being able to follow through with one plan for long enough because everybody start disagreeing on what to do. I've been focusing on keeping us on a single path and it's been going great. We're ahead of schedule with development for the first time in years and we have a team capable of delivering the game of our dreams. The biggest obstacle right now, frankly, is people who push against us without giving us a chance. If people got involved with development by submitting ideas and trying to learn how to make stuff (see Dev Academy) we'd have even better chances at success.
t3st3r wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:04
...also if someone dislikes poll results, it nice idea to fiddle with it. Calling it old isn't worst idea ever, sure. Especially when there is no definition of "old" and "new", very convenient to call it "old" at will.
This poll was created in July 2016, a month before we even officially began the merge. It was made to give us an idea of what the community wants and it has helped a lot. People clearly chose to "migrate as much data as possible", and I've updated our plans accordingly throughout the past 3 years. The discussion will continue, especially over the next 3 months. Anything that can be migrated without disrupting the new server's economy and gameplay balance will be migrated. Step one to achieve that is account-bound items.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by t3st3r » 31 May 2019, 03:05

WildX wrote:
29 May 2019, 12:13
I'm going to try and answer all of your questions.
I appreciate honest answer, thank you.
The fusion is between the world of The Mana World (continent of Ancea with the locations from the game like Hurnscald etc.) and the world of Evol Online (continent of Aemil with Artis etc.); I disagee that it's a vague use of these words, there have been many very clear explanations of this, including the big link at the top of the forum board called "TMW-Evol Fusion" with almost 1000 redirects to a page that explains everything in detail.
Speaking for myself, I think project name like this calls for retaining some look&feel of TMW and things that could be considered "legacy" of TMW. After visiting test server... it felt like entirely different game: can't find any familiar corner/item/npc, etc.
As for redirects/links/etc:
1) Some links are stale or backfire. Say, Etherpad shows big warning it on deathbead (no shutdown date though). I hope you have backup of what it contains, Etherpad itself suggests it.
2) Link to development roadmap leads to ... page with login request. Guess it gitlab's quirk? Makes link almost pointless: devs already know that, everyone else faces unwelcoming login page.
Yes and yes. Viable gameplay is the main focus and one of the major benefits of moving to a brand new server. Starting from zero with gameplay and level progression will allow us to measure out a balanced and fun "journey to max level" for all characters.
Whoa, I would assume I missed a lot of things, despite of lurking on test server. Looking into git seems it got more items than test server exposes. Speaking of TMW, I think ppl level way too fast. I'm 100% fine with leveling again to see how it performs. As for economy, I would call it quite stable for consumables in TMW. That's the most active daily part of economy. As for equipment, it rather "deflation" since under such system more items are introduced one way or another, price per item in player trade expected go down, as it getting more abdunant (unless player population increases at comparable pace). On its own it hard to do something sane about without weird ad-hoc hacks. For economy it causes deflation as one could buy more for same amount of money.

On second thought I think I could be ok with different economy IF that worth of it. For example "item breakage" could be interesting option, but it changes a lot of things and does not maps 1:1 to TMW, turning equipment into "special" consumables. Yet this solves deflation problem without "hacks" and could give boost to crafting/vending,hunting/mining, dangerous expeditions & boss fights. This is in very basic state in TMW and it partially attributed to its economy. So I think there is certain point, if you dare to try something like this.
The test server is for testing, some of these things either don't need testing or aren't ready for testing yet; if all of them were dumped on the test server at once we'd simply be releasing an unfinished version of the actual Hercules server. A game in development doesn't show off all of its new content before launch, it tends to spoil the surprise.
Interesting thinking, I like idea about surprise. On other hand test server doesn't fullfills it role and it causes confusion (I thought test server meant to give more or less actual state). "Real programmers test in production"? :)
As for trashing TMW art, I can tell you that at least myself and Micksha (who's in charge of art) are very focused on maintaining the "TMW feel" as we're both nostalgic TMW players who want to see classic beloved items, NPCs, places, etc. return in the new server. Some things (especially maps) will get some touch-ups or remakes if we think we can do better than what already exists, but at the end of the day we're trying to re-create everything that currently exists in TMW because it's a new server, not a new game.
I really like this view - that could be best option for both devs and players in long run. If it turns to be workable.
You can mistrust new developers because of the actions of old developers. Platyna does it all the time.
Platyna is not bad at spotting patterns. But utterly bad at using obtained knowledge, especially when it comes to "self diagnostics". Later tends to make it hilarious.
I think it's counterproductive to be hostile to anyone trying to take this project forward simply because some people years ago did things you didn't like. o11c hasn't been around for years and he left because his approach was not acceptable by the standards of most of his dev colleagues. I think all of the current devs are smart enough to not repeat the same mistakes.
I really hope it is a case and in this case I should tell I'm sorry for false assumptions. Those were based on visiting test server and assuming it more or less up to date, but it seems it wasn't really a case. At the end of day pointless hostility is stupid, platyna-like attitude is not something to be proud of.
I completely disagree here. The current TMW economy has been broken by years of bug exploits that created very high inflation, bad item management by old dev teams that would give out items to players by spawning them with commands rather than creating quests and actual game content for them and poor planning of quest rewards through uncoordinated production of content.
While these corner cases are true, it actually causes least effect on "day to day" gameplay, etc. So on its own I do not view it as major problem. But I think you raised valid point that over time equipment items could tend to accumulate, dropping their prices and it isn't easy to do something about it in TMW-style economy.
Starting from zero with the economy is the only way to fix these issues. There will surely be things to iron out in the future, but this time we can keep track of every problem as it comes instead of letting it sit for years and slowly make money meaningless in the game.
If it have to come to this, I would think it decent chance to introduce item breakage and crafting of equipment, etc. At whatever later point it could be absolute pain that is hard to undertake.
Evol sprites use the sitting position from current TMW sprites when sitting in beds and chairs. If they look odd, it's because the "original" sitting position was a bit odd-looking. Reid invented the Evol sitting position for that reason and decided to keep the old one as a secondary sitting position for beds and chairs to add a little flavour and life to the characters. It is exactly as you say, a little feature to spice up gameplay. I don't understand what you don't like about it.
Oh wow, it rather complicated. I can imagine it got something to do with position of player legs vs chair/bed/etc. Though most objections are easier - totally unusable/unsleepable chairs/beds almost everywhere. Gets a bit odd in, say, ship where some sailor lies in something like hammoc - but no way player can do anything comparable.
I'd be surprised if the test server looked like "usual Evol" to anyone since we've been focusing on TMW-specific content for the past year. You may have been spawned on an older map. Have you seen the Hurnscald and Argaes areas? Items, as I mentioned above, are not all on the test server. You can use /createitems to see which ones are available and you can test any of those out.
1) I've been curious to see how items/gameplay evolved. And found nearly no change vs plain evol, even after trying debug features, etc. But accoring to you and after lurking in git it seems I had outdated view and "missed something" is quite the case.
2) I've been in Hurns. And got idea I like TMW hurns better. I think I already been too hostile, so it would take me some thinking on how to write feedback in way that does not sounds hostile/arrogant/demotivating.
3) Argaes... no, I wasn't there, mostly because map naming changed, most straightforward "anchors" failed. At which point one gets somewhat lost without thorough grinding through git.
TMW can die just like anything else. There's no 100% sure way to prevent TMW from being abandoned forever. The best way to me is to continue to grow this world, add new content and provide a full game to the community. The only way to do this is to move away from the old tmwAthena server which is not only buggy and unstable, but as I've been saying it's also horribly unbalanced in many ways from years of uncoordinated development. I'm very hopeful that TMW will be a success. I think it has a special place in gaming as a timeless old-school MMORPG that also benefits from the Open Source world. I'm making a point of answering all of your questions in detail because if I can't convince you that our development plans are good, at least I can show you that we all personally care about TMW and that's the only reason we're here working on it.
Yes, you managed to persuade me, thanks.
The biggest challenge for TMW is not being able to follow through with one plan for long enough because everybody start disagreeing on what to do. I've been focusing on keeping us on a single path and it's been going great. We're ahead of schedule with development for the first time in years and we have a team capable of delivering the game of our dreams. The biggest obstacle right now, frankly, is people who push against us without giving us a chance. If people got involved with development by submitting ideas and trying to learn how to make stuff (see Dev Academy) we'd have even better chances at success.
Ok, that's a point of view I failed to consider. Though devs do the very same to community on regular basis. I bet this state of things can be improved hell a lot. After all we all like TMW. And Evol, too.
When it comes to DevAcademy & so on...
1) Lack of test server with up to date state makes it challenging to get overall idea what it meant to be, how it performs, what are most pressing issues when it comes to making gameplay viable, etc.
2) As I can see still plenty activity happens behind closed doors, with plenty of things hidden in sleeves. So "tuning in" is "difficult" as best. For example, are there simple example on how to get e.g. local test server giving more up to date feeling of overall project state, gameplay and so on, to get idea how good/bad some ideas map into it, etc?
3) One of problems with throwing cool thing out of sleeve in one shot, it could be late for some kinds of feedback. As abstract example, introducing something like e.g. item breakage on live server with establisjed economy ... looks in between of "hellish challenge" and "total annihilation".
The discussion will continue, especially over the next 3 months. Anything that can be migrated without disrupting the new server's economy and gameplay balance will be migrated. Step one to achieve that is account-bound items.
So it seems it was really false assumption, sorry about that.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by WildX » 31 May 2019, 13:34

t3st3r wrote:
31 May 2019, 03:05
1) Lack of test server with up to date state makes it challenging to get overall idea what it meant to be, how it performs, what are most pressing issues when it comes to making gameplay viable, etc.
2) As I can see still plenty activity happens behind closed doors, with plenty of things hidden in sleeves. So "tuning in" is "difficult" as best. For example, are there simple example on how to get e.g. local test server giving more up to date feeling of overall project state, gameplay and so on, to get idea how good/bad some ideas map into it, etc?
3) One of problems with throwing cool thing out of sleeve in one shot, it could be late for some kinds of feedback. As abstract example, introducing something like e.g. item breakage on live server with establisjed economy ... looks in between of "hellish challenge" and "total annihilation".
1) I agree with that, but devs are shouldn't be required to pitch everything they do to players and wait for their approval of those plans, that would probably halt development completely for any game. The test server is there for when devs want players to test something. If they don't feel the need for something to be tested by players, then there's little reason to put it on the test server. Test server doesn't equal "demo server".

2) I think this is the biggest problem right now and I'll try to fix that. GitLab is good for devs, but it was better for the community when content was posted on the forums so new stuff could be seen and commented on by everyone more easily. I'll see if I can urge devs to post more on the forums or I could even cross-post things from GitLab more regularly for community feedback. I'll come up with something that hopefully works.

3) Things can always be tweaked after they're released if they don't work the way they were expected to be. The first release will be a beta release exactly for this reason.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by t3st3r » 23 Jun 2019, 09:18

Speaking of things in sleeves, etc I think I have some concrete question.

I've been lurking in code of magic system of TMWA server, figuring out it ... slightly strange, but powerful and curious, it seems now it implemented as kind of server scripts, bringing all power of server scripting to spells. I've got idea to try to change couple of spells to make them more fun compared to what they are now.

I have got at least coarse idea on how to do it on TMWA. I suspect it more or less doable (I may need to bug some scripting experts, but overall it doesn't looks like "mission impossible" to me). Well, because code is here (without "please login/register" pages and private manors), I can read it, see how it transforms to actual gameplay, so it isn't terribly hard to imagine few modifications - and get idea how it could change gameplay. So idea to try to change few spells doesn't sounds impossible to me.

But with "legacy" word being like 50% of TMW wiki, etc, I'm kinda curious - maybe it could be better to try something like this on Hercules instead? Are there aces in the sleeves in this regard? How much of "core" part of magic system & concepts is here? And where to look at, etc? Any pointers? Or I'm better off just trying to patch TMWA scripts if I want to (try to) scratch this itch? Well, TMW rEvolt test server doesn't showcases anything beyond of "boring grinding" battle style so far - so I have very little clue what it can do beyond that, how it meant to work or where to look.
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Re: [FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by jesusalva » 23 Jun 2019, 12:41

Well, it belongs to off-topic, But if you want to know a few things which new engine can do, read this link.

Also, Magic System before they changed it to be more script-like (with a custom language and all) was even easier to understand.

All that doesn't works on Hercules, though, so be warned.
There are workarounds for several things, though.
Jesusalva (aka. Jesusaves)
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