[DIS]Melee idea's

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EJlol
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[DIS]Melee idea's

Post by EJlol »

Archers need to buy arrows, Mages need to buy runes/scrolls/items/whatever. Yet warriors don't need to buy anything. In TMW last time I played (mind you, a few years ago alt8 ) they also didn't had any warrior skills.

Combine this together and you get boring gameplay with lots of bots. Warriors just buy a weapon, and they can use it forever. There is no need to gather extra materials, whatever. Especially after they got the strongest sword, they have completed their gear, and just need to level till 99. The fighting is boring too. Because there are no skills warriors just need to press the attack button. This can be automated very easy, and the result becomes that there are lots of bots.

So, how can we prevent this in Evol Online?
Obviously warrior skills would be great to have, and make the fighting more fun. But for now that is too difficult (as in it will cost a lot of time) to implement for the next release I think. But this also doesn't counter the 'best gear'-problem. It would be better to make weapons perishable IMO. For example a sword can only be used ~200 times to attack. It will make sure that a player has to return to town to buy an another weapon, and therefore cannot bot for unlimited time. I'm not sure however whether that is possible at the server, though my guess is this also not easy to implement.

That is why for now I think we must go down the 'TMW-road', without any skills and perishable weapons/armors. However I do think it is good to think about it now, as IMO it should be a big part of the gameplay.

What are your thoughts for the melee class to make it more interesting, for the near and farway future?
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Reid
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Re: Melee idea's

Post by Reid »

It's nice to talk about this topic without a "I want it now" attached to it! ;)
From a personal view, I'm against it, I never liked it. We should think about making harder quests for our equipment instead of asking an user to constantly buy a new one.
From a dev view, that could work to reduce botting, as it's rare to see a mage or an archer botting, though, it may not please everybody.
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WildX
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Re: Melee idea's

Post by WildX »

A way to repair damaged weapons seems like a better compromise. Having to get a new weapon seems a bit drastic and unrealistic since it's not that easy to "break" a sword. It makes sense having to sharpen it though!
Sharpening a weapon should be as expensive as, say, 3000 arrows.

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Reid
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Re: Melee idea's

Post by Reid »

Sharping it would be a good idea, and the reference to archery is also fine.
Though, maybe a cross product would be better?
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Re: Melee idea's

Post by jesusalva »

Ok. Let's see...
Lack of Warrior skills -]> On TMW server there are warrior spells (#W??), althought I don't know if you're referring to 'magic' or to 'skills' on the skill book. If you're referring to 'skills' on the skill book, I didn't reached this part on my server yet, sorry.

No, about perishable weapons. Very bad idea imo. The advantage of be a warrior is to don't waste money buying recharges. So, making weapons cost a lot seems good, making weapons perishable doesn't.

About sharpening: Seems good imo. The weapon have a fixed damage of, le't say, 10, and 10 more damage from sharpening. The weapon item xml would have a new attribute, sharpened. I would use an integer and decrease it as we attack. The damage recive a sum based on this value, let's say, for 200 attacks: "attack + (sharpen/20)". With this formula, we get exactly 20 damage when sharpened, and 10 when not. We should stop unsharpening when 'sharpen' reaches zero.
Not a impossible formula.

Hmm.. I think that it's all that I have to say for now. If you need help I'm there. alt36

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Re: Melee idea's

Post by jesusalva »

BTW, botting is forbidden Usually a gm asks a question to the user to see if he/she is botting, or if he think that it's too suspect, @charwarp the person and ask him/her to make a few exercices, just to confirm..

(PS. My grammar corrector is broken. Is 'exercices' correct?)
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Re: Melee idea's

Post by WildX »

jesusalva wrote:BTW, botting is forbidden Usually a gm asks a question to the user to see if he/she is botting, or if he think that it's too suspect, @charwarp the person and ask him/her to make a few exercices, just to confirm..

(PS. My grammar corrector is broken. Is 'exercices' correct?)
Yes, botting is forbidden, but people still do it so if we can introduce things that can discourage it even further it's always good. Having to sharpen blades will make bots less effective over time, which is great.

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Re: Melee idea's

Post by Salius »

jesusalva wrote:About sharpening: Seems good imo. The weapon have a fixed damage of, le't say, 10, and 10 more damage from sharpening. The weapon item xml would have a new attribute, sharpened. I would use an integer and decrease it as we attack. The damage recive a sum based on this value, let's say, for 200 attacks: "attack + (sharpen/20)". With this formula, we get exactly 20 damage when sharpened, and 10 when not. We should stop unsharpening when 'sharpen' reaches zero.
Not a impossible formula.
You don't correctly understand. No need additional stat for weapon, like sharpness. New weapon always sharp, but when you use it many times for attack it loose sharpness (damage goes to zero). It's normal process in physics. No one material (metal) can be always sharp (even mithril :P ). Only difference: one material loose sharpness faster, other (better) material loose sharpness slower. And when your weapon loose sharpness, you must go to sharpen it, for example to some NPC who can sharpen your weapon. This make game more realistic. I had this idea too, before you write about it, but I'm not sure is this idea realizable on your server.
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Re: [DIS]Melee idea's

Post by Reid »

That reminds me a conversation with another game dev, we discussed about basing most value on a 120~130% ratio, like, the player's life which would be at 120% and when he dies he's "only" at 100%, when implementing an idea in a game we should never "reduce" or "cause" something wrong on the player's gameplay, so thinking that he's at 100% when actually he is at ~83% of his life wouldn't bother him much.

Well, I might explain this idea later, but we could adapt it for this topic, a sword, when you buy it, is at 120~130% of it's full dmg capacity, and when you uses it 200~300 times, it reduces to 100% of it's dmg capacity. You could then go check a blacksmith to sharpen your sword (or maybe a job for this? ^^).
Salius wrote:[... ]but when you use it many times for attack it loose sharpness (damage goes to zero). It's normal process in physics.
I will stab you with an unsharped knife and you will see if it doesn't hurt. alt5
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Re: [DIS]Melee idea's

Post by Salius »

Reid wrote:I will stab you with an unsharped knife and you will see if it doesn't hurt. alt5
Ok, you are right. Unsharped weapon not zero damage, but lower than new one. I mean that new weapon is 100% of normal damage, but after many times using it reduce damage to (I don't know how much) may be 20%-40% (or less alt5) of normal damage (final value is subject to change). After sharpen it at 100% of normal again.
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Re: Melee idea's

Post by jesusalva »

Salius wrote:
jesusalva wrote:About sharpening: Seems good imo. The weapon have a fixed damage of, le't say, 10, and 10 more damage from sharpening. The weapon item xml would have a new attribute, sharpened. I would use an integer and decrease it as we attack. The damage recive a sum based on this value, let's say, for 200 attacks: "attack + (sharpen/20)". With this formula, we get exactly 20 damage when sharpened, and 10 when not. We should stop unsharpening when 'sharpen' reaches zero.
Not a impossible formula.
You don't correctly understand. No need additional stat for weapon, like sharpness. New weapon always sharp, but when you use it many times for attack it loose sharpness (damage goes to zero). It's normal process in physics. No one material (metal) can be always sharp (even mithril :P ). Only difference: one material loose sharpness faster, other (better) material loose sharpness slower. And when your weapon loose sharpness, you must go to sharpen it, for example to some NPC who can sharpen your weapon. This make game more realistic. I had this idea too, before you write about it, but I'm not sure is this idea realizable on your server.
Actually the new stat is just the integer that stores how much you used the weapon.
After all, to the game know how much you used that sword, it must be stored somewhere, correct?

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