SFX patch for TMW for testing

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SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 15 Jan 2013, 03:36

Hello everyone. I have been working on sound effects on and off for TMW over the past few months. Not too long ago I learned how to patch the manaplus client using the '.local' directory. Thank you Travolta. That means I can test sounds and even enjoy them myself, but I have to keep updating my patch everytime the server makes an update that affects the patch files, of course. This patch is current up to date. On my client it shows 25/25 updates. I know there are better ways to host a file than by using Dropbox, but that is the most convenient till I get A file server of some type set up. Very soon, I assume the seasonal quest will cause a need for me to update this post again. I am not sure how to go about updating, as I would like to delete original .zip and replace it when the next update occurs.
In any event, the sounds can still be heard without actually patching the client, but the files are there to browse and listen to.
The SFX contained are too many to list right now, so I'll name a few tings I did. Skeletons (male and female), Terranite and Jacko. Added a different punch sound that I edited, downloaded from freesound.org... and I did a bunch of spell sounds too. There is a little benefit to doing it like this too; Volume control between tracks. I tried to keep my sfx proportionate with the pre-existing sounds as well. I hope something gets used so that I am not the only one enjoying this.

Candor is ALIVE!!!

The file is too large for the forum, so here is the dropbox link.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40023373/SFX-T ... -01-14.zip

[edit] I forgot to mention that flar and frillyar may not be very accurate. In my haste I made these sfx, sound like fire. I always assumed they were fire as sulfur powder is used, but I guess maybe not. magic dart and arrowhail implies no fire, nor is there a fire sprite. not sure how I thought that, but that is important to note. I think the Jackohurt could be changed as well. It sounds good when a lot of people are hitting it, but not so suiting for a quick, solitary hit, maybe. Whatcha's think?
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Alige » 15 Jan 2013, 07:58

Very, very nice work Ledmitz! I'm glad to see you're still working on sounds.

On a related subject, would you agree on using a dual license for your work? GPLv2 & CC BY-SA 3.0?
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Reid » 15 Jan 2013, 12:37

Ali-G wrote:Very, very nice work Ledmitz! I'm glad to see you're still working on sounds.

On a related subject, would you agree on using a dual license for your work? GPLv2 & CC BY-SA 3.0?
Reason for this dual-licesing is to permit other projects to use this work in a friendlier license, as the GPLv2 doesn't really fit for art content.
In short, this licence works the same as the GPLv2, but it doesn't ask for source of the work, the conditions to use a CC BY-SA 3.0 content are to attribute the work to the author(s) and to share the work under the same license and this even after any change.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 15 Jan 2013, 13:26

Dual license is not a problem. I assumed that since I never licensed anything that it would automatically be free for all to use. Let's keep everything we can as Open Source. I recently gave Tarq a copy as well for him to gander at. I hope that people can pick and choose and use what they wish. As for a bibliography (if that's the right term), most source sounds were altered until they no longer resembled the original samples, but I did get a few things from freesound.org that would need mention. I really appreciate the response and good to hear from you Ali, I hope you're doing well. :)

Now that I know how to use the .local directory, I will be ripping a few songs off this site too, to create an alternate or extra music patch for myself to test. I like more than a few songs and sounds by others and can't wait to hear some of them in the game, especially if done properly using the map XML's, but honestly... I have more fun making the sfx. It's such a blank canvass. :shock:

[edit] I forgot to mention the wolvern howl sound was not mine. Travolta sent it to me and I edited and implemented it as a move sound. It is supposed to be an sfx for sitting still. Also, Travolta send the original Terranite sound that I worked with. I bekieve it may have come from freesound.org too.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Crush » 15 Jan 2013, 14:01

Ledmitz wrote:I assumed that since I never licensed anything that it would automatically be free for all to use.
On the contrary: When you don't explicitely license your work, you automatically keep all rights to the work to yourself and you can sue anyone who uses your work without your explicit permission.

That's why it's important for projects like TMW and its offsprings that contributors agree to the license terms - otherwise they have no legal security.
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Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Jenalya » 15 Jan 2013, 15:43

Could you provide a list which sound was created by yourself, which by others, which are based on other sounds (e.g. from freesound.org) and which license each sound has? We can't use content if those information is unclear. :wink:
I haven't had time yet to test your sounds in detail, but I'll try to in the next days.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 16 Jan 2013, 13:23

I just have a couple sources to track down again. I thought I would be free to do so this morning, but not till at least this evening now. :mrgreen:
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 18 Jan 2013, 18:18

8) Well, it took some digging but I tracked down all the relevant sources. I have attached the Credits--2013-01-18.txt file for convenience, but here are it's contents:


frillyar.ogg - arrow_whoosh.ogg sourced from freesound.org as submitted by user smcameron (I would like to edit this to be used as a bow sound also). Created and edited by Ledmitz.

generic.ogg - firework_explosion_fizz.wav sourced from freesound.org as submitted by user soundscalpel.co. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

ingrav sounds - Sourced from freesound.org. Source files include thunderstorm2.flac by Erdie, thunderstorm 5-5-06.mp3 by FreqMan, Thunder200506_1.wav by csengeri and Bug Zapper2.wav by CGEffex. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

inma.ogg - udu_chimes1.mp3 sourced from freesound.org as submitted by user BristolStories. Edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

jackohurt.ogg - Sourced reaper-hurt.ogg from forums.themanaworld.org as submitted by user nmaligec in the post [REQ] Reaper Quest sfx. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz. (Maybe change this sound and keep for another mob? Orc maybe?)

punch.ogg - Sourced smash.wav from freesound.org as submitted by user awesomeman1234. Edited by Ledmitz.

skillup.ogg - levelup.ogg sourced from updates.themanaworld.org. I was not able to find the original creator for this file. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

terranite sounds - Sourced Monster 4.wav from freesound.org as submitted by user Sea Fury. Found by Travolta. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

wolvern-howling1.ogg - Sourced Wolf Howl.wav from freesound.org as submitted by user Gorgoroth6669. This should be fixed to a standing still sound, rather than moving and maybe a pitch shift so it sounds larger than a normal wolf. It should then be renamed to retain a standard format. Found by Travolta. Edited by Ledmitz.

All other sounds - Created and edited by Ledmitz.


[edit] Please note that I could not find the creator of the levelup.ogg. Help would be appreciated.

[edit2] I would have created and implemented Item sounds as well, but I cannot get it to work via the items.xml. Can anyone help please?
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Reid » 18 Jan 2013, 23:50

Ledmitz wrote:8) Well, it took some digging but I tracked down all the relevant sources. I have attached the Credits--2013-01-18.txt file for convenience, but here are it's contents:


frillyar.ogg - arrow_whoosh.ogg sourced from freesound.org as submitted by user smcameron (I would like to edit this to be used as a bow sound also). Created and edited by Ledmitz.

generic.ogg - firework_explosion_fizz.wav sourced from freesound.org as submitted by user soundscalpel.co. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

ingrav sounds - Sourced from freesound.org. Source files include thunderstorm2.flac by Erdie, thunderstorm 5-5-06.mp3 by FreqMan, Thunder200506_1.wav by csengeri and Bug Zapper2.wav by CGEffex. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

inma.ogg - udu_chimes1.mp3 sourced from freesound.org as submitted by user BristolStories. Edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

jackohurt.ogg - Sourced reaper-hurt.ogg from forums.themanaworld.org as submitted by user nmaligec in the post [REQ] Reaper Quest sfx. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz. (Maybe change this sound and keep for another mob? Orc maybe?)

punch.ogg - Sourced smash.wav from freesound.org as submitted by user awesomeman1234. Edited by Ledmitz.

skillup.ogg - levelup.ogg sourced from updates.themanaworld.org. I was not able to find the original creator for this file. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

terranite sounds - Sourced Monster 4.wav from freesound.org as submitted by user Sea Fury. Found by Travolta. Created, edited and reproduced by Ledmitz.

wolvern-howling1.ogg - Sourced Wolf Howl.wav from freesound.org as submitted by user Gorgoroth6669. This should be fixed to a standing still sound, rather than moving and maybe a pitch shift so it sounds larger than a normal wolf. It should then be renamed to retain a standard format. Found by Travolta. Edited by Ledmitz.

All other sounds - Created and edited by Ledmitz.


[edit] Please note that I could not find the creator of the levelup.ogg. Help would be appreciated.

[edit2] I would have created and implemented Item sounds as well, but I cannot get it to work via the items.xml. Can anyone help please?
Some of these sounds were not originally under the GPLv2 license, they were CC BY 3.0, which mean that they can't become GPLv2 and can't be used by TMW... =/
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 19 Jan 2013, 23:25

8)
After all the research I just did on the GNU GPL 2.0 and the 3 types of CC licenses now available (there used to be 4), the only thing I can figure, is that this is not a licensing issue and only a policy issue from the GHP or a misunderstanding of the obligations one has in fulfilling a license agreement, unless the GPL 2.0 license that TMW uses has special clauses that limit or hinder it's own operation. The only issue would be if TMW decided to start charging a monthly fee or something, then the sounds from a CC 3.0 license would not be able to be included, unless you contact the sound creator as they have the right to adhere to or waive any limitations of the CC.
Let's not forget though that most of the sounds were changed so much that no attributes need even be given, because one sound was used to create another new one in most cases, meaning that the new sound can be licensed however you wish, as long as the new sound is no longer the same as the source, but I prefer to include as many attributes as I can.
This is not true in the case of the inma spell or the punch sound where the source sound is plainly heard. Here we simply give attribute/credit to the author and it retains it's license, which is allowed because different parts of any software can have separate licences, they just need to be adhered to. In the case of any CC license, you may use and distribute how you wish as long as it is not used commercally and that is only in the strictest license, the CC 3.0.
The GPL 2.0 also allows this. The CC content just isn't included in the GPL license as it already has it's own. There is no need to dual license. In fact, that would make them more incompatible. The only way to do that is to have the author waive any complications of the CC license that inhibit YOU from making it GPL 2.0 as well, which would essentially change it to GPL 2.0, but again.... that is pointless. Let's not forget that the GPL and the CC licenses aim to provide much the same goal as each other and that the contributors only want recognition, if anything at all.
@Frost: Sorry I missed your msg on IRC. I was new to the program. After I disconnected I saw it, but I didn't copy it. You pasted a line that shows that things under GPL 2.0 need all adhere to that license and all works contained, I think it said. Again, it is not contained in the GPL, just free for you to use. You also made reference to a stick or something (I forget) that could be defined in a contract as a marshmallow person. If that were true, that contract would become null and void in court because a stick is obviously not a marshmallow person, by any definition. Terms being defined in a contract are only done to avoid misinterpretation, not create it. The only thing that makes a contract hard to read is it's redundant over explanations of terms and stipulations, though some use that to over complicate it, making it a harder and more boring read to get through.
With all that being said, I had to find all this out for myself. It would have been so easy to say,"Contact the original author for permission" or "It is against the GHP policies to use other licences other than GNU GPL 2.0". Since neither was clearly stated (that I recall), I assume it must be misinformation or I am still missing some key information based on the particular GPL license that TMW uses. That means... are there additional stipulations added to the default GPL 2.0 agreement?
@Reid: I would very much like to contribute sounds to any open sourced game. I believe in open source, creative commons and public domain goals. That means I want to make these available to anyone, which in turn means that anyone can use them. It's only sfx, not music and if I post music, the same goes... I only want the credit. Uploading to a server that makes you agree to a public license is definately the answer and I would love to help out with Evol Online too. I love how it is growing there and it's so interactive. Are you able to do event sounds on maps?.. like add different music for different scenarios? I know it is normally one song for a map... if an event triggered a second song.... can it stop the first one beforehand? One thing is for sure... I really like this game engine and it's possibilities. I have been playing on TMW for 2 years and still finding out new tricks, not excluding the client (Manaplus). :D

My sources of information on this topic:
http://creativecommons.org/tag/gpl
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode
http://opensource.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.php
http://opensource.org/faq
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Reid » 19 Jan 2013, 23:44

Ledmitz wrote:@Reid: I would very much like to contribute sounds to any open sourced game. I believe in open source, creative commons and public domain goals. That means I want to make these available to anyone, which in turn means that anyone can use them. It's only sfx, not music and if I post music, the same goes... I only want the credit.
The best license for your work would then be "CC BY 3.0", the problem is that the GPL won't give you any credit of your work...
Ledmitz wrote:Uploading to a server that makes you agree to a public license is definately the answer and I would love to help out with Evol Online too. I love how it is growing there and it's so interactive. Are you able to do event sounds on maps?.. like add different music for different scenarios? I know it is normally one song for a map... if an event triggered a second song.... can it stop the first one beforehand? One thing is for sure... I really like this game engine and it's possibilities. I have been playing on TMW for 2 years and still finding out new tricks, not excluding the client (Manaplus). :D
There're possible features/tricks to launch a sfx in a special part of a map or in a script, and if it doesn't exist, then I'm sure that it can be created. ^^
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by o11c » 19 Jan 2013, 23:51

Reid wrote:The best license for your work would then be "CC BY 3.0", the problem is that the GPL won't give you any credit of your work...
This is completely untrue. The GPL requires that any copyright notices the author adds be kept. It's only an issue if the author doesn't add copyright notices in the first place.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Reid » 20 Jan 2013, 00:13

o11c wrote:
Reid wrote:The best license for your work would then be "CC BY 3.0", the problem is that the GPL won't give you any credit of your work...
This is completely untrue. The GPL requires that any copyright notices the author adds be kept. It's only an issue if the author doesn't add copyright notices in the first place.
Right, I've forget about it. ^^

Then Ledmitz you have a second option now, you can dual-license your work in CC BY-SA 3.0 (or CC BY 3.0) and GPLv2 if the original work allow it.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 21 Jan 2013, 14:24

Reid wrote:Ledmitz you have a second option now, you can dual-license your work in CC BY-SA 3.0 (or CC BY 3.0) and GPLv2 if the original work allow it.
Sorry, but are you saying there are two types of CC 3.0 here?
and again, no need to dual license (and the 2 are incompatible anyway) unless it is a TMW policy to do GPL 2.0 only. I still haven't been clarified on if this is true or if TMW believe it is a licensing issue.
BTW, has anyone listened to them? or just jumped straight to the legalities?, which in this case may not even be an issue. It is pretty tough to copyright a single sound. It has to be very 'stand out' and known for it to even be an issue, like a light sabre for instance, so this entire discussion may be irrelevant.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Reid » 21 Jan 2013, 15:56

Ledmitz wrote:Sorry, but are you saying there are two types of CC 3.0 here?
Some of the works that you edited from freesound were licensed under the CC BY 3.0, this mean that you can release them under CC BY 3.0 compatible license.
So all of the license listed here, without the CC-0/Public domain. Probably some other license can be compatible with the CC BY 3.0, but I don't know them...

Also, "udu_chimes1.mp3" is licensed under CC BY-NC 3.0, this isn't a free/libre license. :(
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