Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

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veryape
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by veryape »

In my mind it is like having a gm that leaves his char online all the time, the difference from server wide logging should be quite obvious. This char can only see one map at a time, it will probably be parked in places where many people are.

So if you want to discuss something in "private" with a few friends who are not in the same party you can always still park your ass somewhere where you can be alone and talk about it there.

For me it is a big difference, it is something controlled by the gm's for the gm's, server wide logging of general chat does not feel right at all for me, if you have any new input on that i think it should be discussed in the thread with that proposal. -> HERE

However I am not sure what to do about people being asses and getting caught in the logs of doing so. What would we normally do? Warn and kick, if we see this 6 hours after it happened and the player is not online what should we do? wait for them to come online and kick them? Have a talk with them?

It is kind of toothless, but I think that we could warn them and maybe say that the next time they are caught acting like this it will be a straight ban for X number of days etc.
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SriNitayanda
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by SriNitayanda »

+ logging of public chat requires more coordination between GM's and admins and it might get admin's more involved in GM's job something i personally prefer would not happen. leaving a GM character where most ppl/insults occur is a nice idea imo. its not like ppl will move from hurnscald soon and if someone is tired of some troll he can always go sit in hurnscald for a while.

Mistakes when was the last time you called the police cause someone insulted you? :alt-2:
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Nard
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Nard »

Even If a 24∕24 online gm doesn't prevent insults to occur, at least he can receive the @wgm messages, which was not the case before; Thus there are better chances that a complaint gets an answer (whatever it is). Perhaps some dissuasion can occur too. If Ape or any GM can do it, by advance thanks.
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by wushin »

It would help to attempt to change the culture online as well. If you don't want to see rude players, tell players being rude to stop being rude. A community of players has a far greater influence on how the players act than a GM.
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veryape
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by veryape »

I totally agree with wushin, mob rules are often more effective than gm rules imo. However a well known and respected player can use the community far more effectively than a beginner. This might help beginners feeling a bit more welcome than the "screenshots are not proof" kind of thing.

And we also show as GM's/TMWC members that we take this seriously.

But yeah, as I said in the gina threa, i guess that clown will have a hard time getting help in the future.
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DefinitelyNOTMrWho
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by DefinitelyNOTMrWho »

I don't know if logging conversations, in any way, would do this game any good.

We should face the fact that some people are going to insult others, this happends in real life too and just like here, people should learn to deal with it. I'm not saying insulting people is ok but sometimes using the "ignore" button is the only reasonable solution out there.

There are fewer and fewer players online anyway and if you're gonna start banning them, only the devs will play this game.

I think this matter is simply resolved by clicking "IGNORE"

P.S.The only reason I ended up playing this game is geting a G-Line on QuakeNet for calling everybody that joined the #help channel a "f*cktard" for 3 month is a row.
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veryape
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by veryape »

While i think that mrwho actually has a valid point here I think that most people does not know about the ignore feature and some people thinks that because it is not IRC the standards of moderation should be a lot harder.

And some people actually oversteps the line quite badly, no trolling with a hint of humor, just "you suck", "die", "Duck you" and such.

Those people can actually scare away people. The beginners that are not brought up on the internet in the same way as some of us don't have a thick skin and might leave before they learn about what is good with openness and what is bad with it.

We had the issue a few months back when some people left the game because of things like this. I think it is time to up the effort, not because i think we will catch boatloads of abusers but because we show that we do care and try doing something about it, however i think this should go public alongside a statement about that people should not be afraid to use the ignore feature. Since gm's cant be everywhere all the time people must be able to use the moderation features that are built into the client imo.
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Nard
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Nard »

wushin wrote:It would help to attempt to change the culture online as well. If you don't want to see rude players, tell players being rude to stop being rude. A community of players has a far greater influence on how the players act than a GM.
I don't know a better way to do so, than the words Gina used on this case. It had obviously no effect. This is unfortunately why GM are needed. Your remark also applies to players who use unfair means to get advantage on others. Players asked them to stop too, at least in the presence of other players, with similar results :?
This is a role play, and as a matter of consequence, some players like to play assholes, there is no satisfying solution to this, as MrWho underlined it.
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by blackrazor »

Yeah, some of these jerks actually get off on the indignation of others, so having the community tell them off will only encourage them.

Sometimes, if they keep doing it, or it's really atrocious (like what happened to Ginaria), then you need to realize that those kinds of players are not here to play nice, and their idea of fun includes the sadistic infliction of pain upon another living soul. Being anonymous just makes it easier. Banning such players is a way of steering the community in a direction you want. The alternative is to let them chase the nice folks away, and then the community becomes theirs. Not a pleasant prospect, in my opinion.

It's in one of those guidelines of mmorpg from: http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming2/laws- ... ld-design/

Specifically, the first of Hanarra's laws:
Hanarra’s Laws wrote:
Over time, your playerbase will come to be the group of people who most enjoy the style of play that your world offers. The others will eventually move to another game.
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Chicka-Maria »

I don't think there's any point if people can't insult people in town but they can insult people else where. This would just encourage trolls to go out and find people who are actually trying to do quests/farm and bother them. It should be all public places or none IMO.

If people don't remember there is the nuke button and the ignore button all supported by our official client :wink:

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Chicka
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Wombat
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Wombat »

Chicka-Maria wrote:I don't think there's any point if people can't insult people in town but they can insult people else where. This would just encourage trolls to go out and find people who are actually trying to do quests/farm and bother them. It should be all public places or none IMO.

If people don't remember there is the nuke button and the ignore button all supported by our official client :wink:

regards,
Chicka
I remember when this was the encouraged method for handling these problems. It is built right in the client. People that don't do this and complain are too worried about what a troll thinks and might need to do something about their self esteem instead of playing a video game. More into online drama just because some 12 year old is trying to enjoy this game like they do all games, like little jerks. Remember jerks are players too and chasing away all the jerks will only make this a small game forever because the Internet is a sea of assholes. Small town cop attitude makes small towns stay small towns.
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Chay
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Chay »

This thread is about a proposal to change current practice. It is mostly directed to gms and players, it's a howto increase anti abuse measures within current practice.
Discussions about server wide chatlogging and player abuse in general can continue in the more appropriate threads:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17954&start=13
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18145

summarizing the replies i get this:
No concerns have been raised so far that actually reveal any flaws in the suggested logics. What remains to discuss is by what policy a gm should use his/her afk logs. (only read if @wgm or also by late witnessing (if screeny is posted in courthose etc)) but that seems to be a matter of gm's to discuss in a smaller circle or even private decision)
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Wombat
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Wombat »

Chay wrote:This thread is about a proposal to change current practice. It is mostly directed to gms and players, it's a howto increase anti abuse measures within current practice.
Discussions about server wide chatlogging and player abuse in general can continue in the more appropriate threads:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17954&start=13
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18145

summarizing the replies i get this:
No concerns have been raised so far that actually reveal any flaws in the suggested logics. What remains to discuss is by what policy a gm should use his/her afk logs. (only read if @wgm or also by late witnessing (if screeny is posted in courthose etc)) but that seems to be a matter of gm's to discuss in a smaller circle or even private decision)
I disagree, you have several people that are talking about other things because they don't see this as a good solution. Any GM intervention is a potential player gone, so I'd rather see less of that and more players take the matter into their own hands and use the client feature to ignore. Some people just don't seem to understand how easy it is.
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Hello=)
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Hello=) »

Wombat wrote:Any GM intervention is a potential player gone,
Correct. Nobody comes on server to see how cool GMs are. However, some players have ability to cause such amounts of annoyance/grief that it can make multiple players to leave and it have to be considered. Putting some GM for 24/7 seems to be nice idea for few most popular public areas. I think goal is not to punish each and every badass in game (punishment also could lead to player loss), but rather try to discourage certain behaviour. Logging chats on its own does not discourages bad attitude, only allows to apply some punishment post-factum. On other hand, sight of GM could make offenders to think twice if they're sure about using foul/offensive language in public area, for example. This could discourage certain attitudes before problem actually happens. IMHO nice idea. Am I miss something?
Last edited by Hello=) on 13 Mar 2014, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

Post by Big Crunch »

t3st3r wrote:
Wombat wrote:Any GM intervention is a potential player gone,
Correct. Nobody comes on server to see how cool GMs are. However, some players have ability to cause such amounts of annoyance/grief that it can make multiple players to leave and it have to be considered. Putting some GM for 24/7 seems to be nice idea. I think goal is not to punish each and every badass in game (punishment also could lead to player loss), but rather try to discourage certain behaviour. Logging chats on its own does not discourages bad attitude, only allows to apply some punishment post-factum. On other hand, sight of GM could make offenders to think twice if they're sure about using foul/offensive language in public area, for example. This could discourage certain attitudes before problem actually happens. IMHO nice idea. Am I miss something?
This is why you often see GM's in Hurnscald, which is the hub of the game. It discourages some of the snottier behavior. Plus, often, just seeing a GM online stops some from using their automation.

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