its time to call the development team to task

[Matt]

I used these dumb collision in my first RPG I wrote with MangaMania in 2001,
so hell yeah I like what you say bcs86, Matt approves! Time for the future

I don't know if these multi-layers are already supported (e.g. for bridges where you can walk over and under it), this was discussed since the beginning of this project, but "new" features like swimming, running speed, flying(?), maybe vehicles or pets would be great. I agree with every feature that makes Manaserv better/more core/different to eAthena, honestly I even forgot why the development of Tmwserv was even started - besides pixel-based movement and a more SoM-like fighting system ... oO

[DarkWater]

I just give up. I really do.

Ok, around this tree one more time.

1.) Botting.

2.) Automation

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

Botting is any activity in game while away from the keyboard. If your client iis on and connected to a server and you are not there, I consider it botting, but the gm's will consider it on a case to case basis.
Botting is easily taken care of by gm's checking for botting.

Automation is what we are talking about. Automation is making the client do things while player are at the keyboard. See how that is not botting? If you want to stop automation, I have the perfect solution, make one client, charge people 10 pounds a month for 1 account. Any other accounts to the same ip will be only 5 pounds per month. Your multiboxing will drop to nothing over night. So will most of the community in general. What ever can be broadcast by the offical client can be copied by anything.

You are not going to get stop automation. The only way to do that is, like said before, really screw up someones computer. The problem with automation is game play. Automation works when there is a set of boundaries and a simple set of rules. Basically go there, attack, attack, pickup, go over there. You can try all the scheme and scams you can think of.

If there is a serous problem, set a rule of diminishing returns. Once again, the old pen and paper roleplaying saves the day. Set how much of x the player is allowed in 24 hours. How much exp, how many of one item, how many gp. After x amount has been reached, the next exp is lowered, the drop rate is lowered, the gp is lowered, going to the point of zero. Automation will reach the point very quickly, players like prsm would reach it very slowly. But you will reach it.

You can adjust the amount per day, week, month, event or whatever.

So two choices, start to limit what can be gotten from automation or start charging for the game and force drm on people computers two stop private clients.

But you will not listen to me, because we have been around this tree so many times, there is no bark left on it.

[skipy]

i agree with Crush and bcs86

and one thing that has always bugged me was stacking players and monsters and the way a player can stand on the same tile as a player ...as Matt said "" more SoM-like fighting system"" that would really be "game play". .......
---skipy

[Tiana]

My personal opinion is that automation will continue until the gameplay is less repetitive. There are 2 main areas of concern here:

Quests: Most of our current quests have you collecting items - not bad except there is usually a small chance of getting the item, then an equally small chance of having the item accepted. This leads to - over time - an interest in automation for many. Why run around hitting fluffies or logheads manually for an hour when you can set it up to be done via automation and instead you use that time to chat via party or whisper with friends? Many automaters are not bad ppl, in fact many of them are good players who add a lot of value to the game. We simply need more varied quests.
Its not all bad on the quest front, and there are some that are better than others. It would help if there were more quests too - so lets keep our fingers crossed!

Leveling: This is the one that all games will have issues with. Some players want to reach the maximum level possible, and if grinding is the best way to do it then they will find the most efficient way to do so. Right now in TMW that is grinding mobs. At least 2 things might help here.
One is to add in stronger mobs, bosses (like the Reaper), and those AoE attacks from mobs. Its hard to automate when you have to be on your toes because of status effects and being overwhelmed even if in a stack. Note that if equipment tiers and stats are changed to something similar to what I saw on the test server, that might lessen the benefits of automation.
Two is back to quests. More quests, more varied quests, and more overall exp gain from quests would make questing a better way to gain the exp needed to level as opposed to grinding.

I do tend to be opposed to changing how many players can be on one tile. I have no clue how challenging or easy that might be in terms of programming. Somewhere else in this forum I wrote down my reasons, if I find that thread I'll link it or quote it later

Well, thats my few cents worth as a player. If anyone wants more details I will perhaps provide them

[Crush]

Engine-wise though, It disappoints me a little that Manaserv seems to be a broader re-implementation of eAthena.

Collision tiles are still dumb. Dumb collision layers deserve to be botted. I'd bring up
Fother_J's work on interactive tiles
which shouldn't be forgotten. The more ways of interacting with maps the better.

Give it some time, please. We are still trying to get manaserv to run at all without any glitches and crashs and to be administrateable by someone who isn't a programmer. We still need to get the fundamentals done. Then we can take care of the details.

A more complex collision system, including stairs, shaped collision tiles and multiple walkable layers, is just one point on a very long todo list.

[Bertram]

Hi,

A more complex collision system, including stairs, shaped collision tiles and multiple walkable layers, is just one point on a very long todo list.

I do second and confirm that. I fully understand the need of getting new gameplay features, and that's exactly why we're shaping manaserv up.
Yet, creating a modern programmed flexible MMORPG server engine isn't the same thing as buying bananas in a mall: It need proper conceptualization, takes time, and must be incrementally and precisely tested.

We're lacking dev hands, so if anyone is interested, and ready to try to fix what's already there while listening to design advice without bringing unfinished or untested stuff, and especially without whining when we say 'no' for something with proper reasons, I'd be glad to help him/her.

Best regards.