Hmm..Fair or not? 2

[bcs86]

I was in Candor waiting for Parua to begin the fight when Big Crunch turned PvP on.
The fight had not begun before my character was dead.
Most likely was a warning aimed at "drop sitters" (avoiding harm, only picking up loot).

There was yet a while to wait before fight time.
I was away when my character was savagely murdered. The culprit was probably another player just having fun.
Big Crunch revived me so I didn't have to miss the event.

In hindsight, I think they were just bored and decided to have a short PvP match to pass time.

Note: The commands used to turn on PvP and to revive my character were used before the event had started and the entrance was still open (I did not have to respawn though).

Let's be careful to not take GM logs out of context. They only record commands asked of the server.

[chaslinux]

[2011-04-21 02:21:14] 009-1.gat(46,29) Prsm(2102937) : @kill mrgrey
[2011-04-17 21:53:57] 031-3.gat(46,27) Big Crunch(2160466) : @kill Frost
[2011-04-12 18:53:36] 009-1.gat(46,37) Big Crunch(2160466) : @kill verdo
[2011-04-11 00:45:19] 009-1.gat(46,29) Prsm(2102937) : @kill zeshadok
[2011-04-10 02:39:48] 009-1.gat(46,37) Big Crunch(2160466) : @kill kandi

Well here are at least 5 people who ARE friends of the GMs being killed by the GMs. This isn't about favortism.

[dayve]

Lets put the blame where it belongs. The GHP knew these commands were part of the abuse of past GMs, yet here we are again. The die command can and is used to free people that get stuck in places that they cannot get out of. What use do normal GMs have of to bring people back to life?

[Big Crunch]

Lets put the blame where it belongs. The GHP knew these commands were part of the abuse of past GMs, yet here we are again. The die command can and is used to free people that get stuck in places that they cannot get out of. What use do normal GMs have of to bring people back to life?

Beyond the normal usage, I use these commands as jokes orfor fun. I have never received a complaint from the subjects of these kill commands, and were i to, i would apologize, explain that it was in jest and never do it again
. In no way does my usage of these commands garner anyone an advantage, nor does it inflict a disadvantage. I am careful to not use them in this way.

[dayve]

Beyond the normal usage, I use these commands as jokes orfor fun. I have never received a complaint from the subjects of these kill commands, and were i to, i would apologize, explain that it was in jest and never do it again
. In no way does my usage of these commands garner anyone an advantage, nor does it inflict a disadvantage. I am careful to not use them in this way.

no, i dont think you or prsm did it to bring anyone an advantage. Nor do i feel either of you should quit. That said, you both should have known better, prsm more IMHO.

[DarkWater]

no, i dont think you or prsm did it to bring anyone an advantage. Nor do i feel either of you should quit. That said, you both should have known better, prsm more IMHO.

I completely agree. As usual I completely agree with dayve on this one. Kage invented candor. He made it clear that you are not to use gm commands inside of candor for any reason. So can we respect his wishes? No gm commands in candor. If server lag kills everyone, come on the forums and complain about that?

What dayve, old navy, and I am saying is gm commands should not be used in day to day activities. What Kage is saying that gm commands should never be used to directly effect the outcome of game play or gamer experience, when it relates to the player actually playing the game. I completely agree both are reason able. (IF I am getting it wrong let me know), No killing or kicking friends for fun or laughs, the gm commands are used to enforce the rules.
All of you should know better.

Now we get to species events? For example, I want to host a pvp event in the forest, should gm's be allowed revive, kick,die, teleport, if I ask them to. This would have nothing to do with game play or user experience.

I personally dont know, would love opinions.

[Wombat]

Now we get to species events? For example, I want to host a pvp event in the forest, should gm's be allowed revive, kick,die, teleport, if I ask them to. This would have nothing to do with game play or user experience.

Player organized events that work with GMs and utilize their powers would be excellent. I support this if the event is requested on the forums with details on which commands are to be used and why(for the record and prevent accusation of abuse issues). Also wanted in such a request are the maps that would be affected and what the GM broadcast should say. The broadcast should give the map information for players that want to participate or avoid the event.

Obviously, along with this, is a GM willing to accept this request.

[Frost]

I'm sad.

This started when a player at Candor asked Prsm to @revive her and he declined. She posted to the forums. OldNavy stirred the pot by cherrypicking entries from the GM log.

This was effective: others took up the cry of "GM abuse" and soon the fire brigade arrived on the scene.
After some fraught discussion about how GMs shouldn't be abusing their powers like this, several influential people suggested that GM commands should be disallowed in some parts of the game map, specifically in Candor.

Here's what I learned.
1) It doesn't take much to create a witchhunt against GMs in these forums. Even baseless accusations are taken seriously.
2) Apparently, GMs are (or will be) powerless in Candor. Powerless to revive characters, powerless to hold an impromptu spawn party, and powerless to...enforce the rules.
3) Using @revive on someone who lagged out is bad. So is using @kill on someone, even if all involved think it's funny. In fact, every entry in the GM log is potential blackmail material.

There are actual problems in the game that have actual effects on actual gameplay. This incident wasn't one of them -- until people overreacted.

[yubabax116]

2) Apparently, GMs are (or will be) powerless in Candor. Powerless to revive characters, powerless to hold an impromptu spawn party, and powerless to...enforce the rules.

As it should be in candor just like any other player, GM's are not here to @kill or @revive anybody. they are here to enforce the rules and make spawn partys when they feel like it. When it affects other players as it did it shouldnt be used. Not that im against the GM's but they have to understand Its not right.

3) Using @revive on someone who lagged out is bad. So is using @kill on someone, even if all involved think it's funny. In fact, every entry in the GM log is potential blackmail material.

Doesnt matter if they think its funny or not, what if they thought @revive was funny would they do that for everyone? The GM logs are there so the GM's have a reason NOT to sneak around and abuse their powers, if there was no GM log (not saying they would) but there can be conflict on GM power abuse and no one would know which GM abused their powers.



Yubaba

[dayve]

I'm sad.

This started when a player at Candor asked Prsm to @revive her and he declined. She posted to the forums. OldNavy stirred the pot by cherrypicking entries from the GM log.

First, any player should expect equal and fair treatment from any GM. This didn't happen! Prsm helped one player and refused another. He then failed to explain why well enough to make this player understand. The GM log is there to protect us. You are on the inside on these, how do the ones that see others treated better feel?

1) It doesn't take much to create a witchhunt against GMs in these forums. Even baseless accusations are taken seriously.

These were not baseless, as shown in the GM log.

3) Using @revive on someone who lagged out is bad. So is using @kill on someone, even if all involved think it's funny. In fact, every entry in the GM log is potential blackmail material.

How many other GMs use this power? Prsm said, "After talking to 1 other gm, i was told it wasn't right to that, so i will not be continuing that practice!"
It seems other GMs can tell what is right.

There are actual problems in the game that have actual effects on actual gameplay. This incident wasn't one of them -- until people overreacted.

“Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.” Edmund Burke
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =12&t=8336

[Jumpy]

you know what...

stop with those old stories
they are past and belong to the past

you want to build the game i say that's good
we'll do it together

the way you do it... the way you want to do it this way spitting on persons that bring value in game,
spend their personal life trying their best to bring life, order in this game i say that's bad

so Dark Water, Dayve, i appreciate you a lot BUT show respect to those that have the guts to do what you don't:
spending time in game assuming responsability

work as a team with GM and the several authorities
be adults...

i am sure you have the capacity to do it
will you find the right way out of dramas to do it?
that will help a hundred times more than the way you're doing it...

again... thanks for contributing

Sincerly

[evadem]

Nothing like a good old GM crucifixion to put one in the spirit of Easter!

[dayve]

so Dark Water, Dayve, i appreciate you a lot BUT show respect to those that have the guts to do what you don't:
spending time in game assuming responsability

Respect is earned! If anything prsm lost my respect with these actions as he has shown bad judgement , lack of fairness to all players and poor communication skills so far as a GM.

[Jumpy]

Respect is earned! If anything prsm lost my respect with these actions as he has shown bad judgement , lack of fairness to all players and poor communication skills so far as a GM.

all of this is your own opinion of course

mine is

bad judgement: he is learning his gm position and imho he did nothing that deserves to package him and categorize him as a man of bad judgement. On the countrary everyone learns from his mistakes if what happened can be considered as a mistake.

lack of fairness: killing friends and not reviving them... yes you are right... hum think about it: one of his main value is that he is fair with anyone and never do favoritism...

poor comunication: he acted in a mature and responsible way to avoid trolling and was clear in his statment.

if instead of attaking somebody being newly gm, and used that in your will of power on game
if instead of that you would open debate naturally without these craps

i think all community would participate and all comunity would benefit from that,... you first...

work to try to find better ways to improve comunity my friends
leave your egos and old histories apart

Sincerely

end of comments

please close post and open one new with a title like "reflexion on GM commands"

[dayve]

If you stop being his attack dog you will see i blame the GHP, as i posted in this. I have not ask for him to be fired or quit, but i will not overlook his faults either.