[DIS] Review the current rules and punishment

[Wombat]

Hey Killers, do you think sharing in the killing with other players is "kill stealing"? I don't think you do nor do I. If you'd like, I'll kill steal you and you can tell me if you think it is rude or not.

Rules and Etiquette

[Kill3rZ]

You're right and I do appreciate your change of tone.

However, I think you like to make your point by bullying and being rude to people with different opinions and I'm not impressed. That doesn't make you right when you are wrong and you're not even that good at it.

You might want to know that a few people I have never spoken to before in the game came and congratulated me for stepping up to you. Old players like yourself. I don't care what that says about me, but perhaps you'd like to take a moment to think this over from your point of view. I bet they're only jealous.

[Wombat]

One second I'm a whiner, the next I'm a bully. I'll let your last post stand because this is trolling from the purpose of this topic.

My posting of old rules wasn't because I was trying to enforce those rules, but rather give an example of other rules that have been posted in the past before the current rules were formalized. The game has changed a lot since then, especially the more xp for sharing in killing monsters, which didn't exist when I created that version. I posted them so we could discuss ways to approach a new rules system.

[Kill3rZ]

Well, I'll troll some more.

Whiner: The day Sugarcorgit was banned you were screaming up and down that all GMs suck, FU*K the GMs etc. You were complaining and complaining some more about the way this game is run and asking for some GMs that just happened to be your enemies in the game (whatever that means) to be revoked as GMs. Believe me, you complained a lot and you should read some of your own posts if you don't believe me. I got annoyed because the GMs that you want punished lacked an extensive set of instructions on what issues they can and must judge and how they must do it. There never was a power abuse, but an effort to solve an "official" complaint on a controversial situation.

Intermediate phase: You bring up an obsolete list of rules to solve all our troubles in the game and to prevent any future problems like this one. The list IS obsolete: stealing kills is hardly an issue these days with the XP modifier for group kills. And it's mostly useless as it fails to bring up newer issues like scamming for example and it never even touches the problem that started the whole thing. I objected to your obsolete list.

Bully: The first answering post you had for me after this was a great occasion for you to attack me on very relevant issues like the characteristics of my nickname. We met in Hurnscald and you repeated the assault "live". We continued this wonderful discussion for several posts and it seems we are still doing it.

[Wombat]

Well Killers,

To answer your little troll. I brought up the fact that they were my player enemies because that should be known. They aren't the shining stars of integrity people were wanting to make them out to be. As noted, I figured that such behaviors could be put in the past, but they continue with those behaviorisms into their role as GM, which leaves me to question their very credibility to be GMs.

I brought up obsolete rules because we are having a discussion on rules. That is the thread and I figured I would add to it to expose that there were alternatives to those rules. If you follow the link provided on rules and etiquette, you will find that my alternative version mirrors those rules, but were worded differently.

I answered with your little nickname because you said I was whining, so I figured I'd poke you for being a little dick. Then afterwards you wanted to act like I was a bully. Blah blah blah.

[Kill3rZ]

You like the word "little" don't you? You must hear it a lot since it comes so naturally often in your mind and speech.

Otherwise,

Whiner: (poorly justifying your annoying endless and rude complaints)

Well Killers,

To answer your little troll. I brought up the fact that they were my player enemies because that should be known. They aren't the shining stars of integrity people were wanting to make them out to be. As noted, I figured that such behaviors could be put in the past, but they continue with those behaviorisms into their role as GM, which leaves me to question their very credibility to be GMs.

On-topic intermezzo to show us your noble intentions of making TMW a better place:

I brought up obsolete rules because we are having a discussion on rules. That is the thread and I figured I would add to it to expose that there were alternatives to those rules. If you follow the link provided on rules and etiquette, you will find that my alternative version mirrors those rules, but were worded differently.

Bully:

I answered with your little nickname because you said I was whining, so I figured I'd poke you for being a little dick. Then afterwards you wanted to act like I was a bully. Blah blah blah.

QED

[Wombat]

**post removed player**

Don't Feed the Troll.

[adamaix]

Getting back to the topic of reviewing the rules, Regnum Online (might be a bad example) have a nice code of conduct with a clearly defined tier for punishment.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/index.php?l=1&sec=22

MK/Cotillion and Wombat suggested to remove Abuse as a rule and let the community deal with that, I tend to agree with that since I believe in "censoring myself, not others" and leaves GM's out of politically motivated squabbles.

Suggested rules to be added:

Account hacking
Impersonation
Scamming

These are things that are not in the rules but players were being banned for. I'll leave the GM's to decide the punishment tier, all I want is something that is consistent.

[Jumpy]

Wombat -1
but we all are getting use to it since you go on lowering down your positiv, constructive apportation and contributions to the talks.

adamaix +1
again gratz for new infos such as giving elements to compare and be able to go further in how games are ruled. it gives ideas

Regards

[Wombat]

Hey Jumpy, I have no idea what you are talking about. Why you feel the need to chirp in everytime I post something with something that is difficult to understand, I don't know. I know you don't understand English well, but please attempt to make a better attempt to communicate. If I'm reading things correctly, what you are giving props to adamaix to is something I agree with as well.

As stated before, this is a discussion on rules and for the most part there seems to be a consensus among participants here on reducing the GMs role as arbitrators of player conflicts and instead focus on the things that players like them to do such as handling bots.

[Amun]

Here is my suggestion for rules. Some of it is from the existing rules and others from rules I heard here and there and some from my own forum community modified to suit this game. They are rather simple and to the point.

- Start -

GM Statement
We do not wish to impose against your freedom and how you choose to play TMW. These rules are in place to keep things running smoothly and so TMW Users can have the most enjoyable experience and participate to the fullest while playing the game.

The Rules

1. Conduct yourself in a respectable manner. Any abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a persons privacy behavior will not be tolerated.

2. When dealing with a GM do so in a respectful and courteous manner. Failing to do so may result in sanctions against your account.

3. No bots. Which includes any afk activity in game.

4. Please speak English in all public channels.

5. If you are unable to live and abide by the previously stated rules please feel free to find a new game to play.


Notable Mentions:

Although not officially part of the rules here are some suggestions to avoid problems and enhance your gaming experience.

- Do not beg for items. Begging is usually frowned upon by most of the community. In most cases instead of receiving free items you will simply be ignored and lose respect amongst fellow players.

- Do not scam. The instant gratification will not outweigh the long term affects. All scammers are exposed in time.

- There are a lot of people willing to help out new comers to the game. Don't forget to thank them! Let them know they are appreciated. You may need their help again at some point.

- Love your local healers They are the ones that keep you alive during them intense battles. Feel free to crack them a smile and a thank you.

- Don't whine and complain about every little indifference.

- End-

Well that is what I can think of for now.

[Katze]

I thoroughly disagree with most of your rules.

2. When dealing with a GM do so in a respectful and courteous manner. Failing to do so may result in sanctions against your account.

This is absolute nonsense. We should not ask more respect than other players get and we should be able to handle more abuse towards ourselves than we allow others to be abused.

4. Please speak English in all public channels.

I disagree with this. You may speak whatever language you want in whatever channel you want if there is nobody who does not understand your "foreign" language.

5. If you are unable to live and abide by the previously stated rules please feel free to find a new game to play.

This might be true. But it can never be a rule.

Notable Mentions:

Although not officially part of the rules here are some suggestions to avoid problems and enhance your gaming experience.

that's what rules are supposed to regulate, imo.

I won't comment on the rest. Some of it is true but should not part of something like this.

[Amun]

I thoroughly disagree with most of your rules.

2. When dealing with a GM do so in a respectful and courteous manner. Failing to do so may result in sanctions against your account.

This is absolute nonsense. We should not ask more respect than other players get and we should be able to handle more abuse towards ourselves than we allow others to be abused.

4. Please speak English in all public channels.

I disagree with this. You may speak whatever language you want in whatever channel you want if there is nobody who does not understand your "foreign" language.

5. If you are unable to live and abide by the previously stated rules please feel free to find a new game to play.

This might be true. But it can never be a rule.

Notable Mentions:

Although not officially part of the rules here are some suggestions to avoid problems and enhance your gaming experience.

that's what rules are supposed to regulate, imo.

I won't comment on the rest. Some of it is true but should not part of something like this.

Thanks for your feedback and I value your opinion.

on rule #2 if as a GM you can't demand respect or are afraid to bestow the powers place upon you by the Dev's to do your job effectively you shouldn't be a GM to begin with IMHO. Being a GM is not a popularity contest which from the out side looking in seems to be in some cases.

Ideally GM's should be uncorrupted, unbiased, unsympathetic yet remain compassionate and fair. AND most importantly do their job and if they let players walk all over them and take crap and not to mention let whining and complaining reverse their decisions they can not do it effectively and are certainly not respected.

Make me a GM for a day and I'll show you how its done.

[Katze]

Thanks for your feedback and I value your opinion.

on rule #2 if as a GM you can't demand respect or are afraid to bestow the powers place upon you by the Dev's to do your job effectively you shouldn't be a GM to begin with IMHO. Being a GM is not a popularity contest which from the out side looking in seems to be in some cases.

Ideally GM's should be uncorrupted, unbiased, unsympathetic yet remain compassionate and fair. AND most importantly do their job and if they let players walk all over them and take crap and not to mention let whining and complaining reverse their decisions they can not do it effectively and are certainly not respected.

I think you don't get what I'm saying. well, if you have ever seen me doing my job you certainly have seen that I kind of fit into that "ideal" description of yours. But I have other means to deal with people who are abusive or just not utterly respectful than to ask respect in a forceful manner.

Btw, wrong decisions can be reversed and GMs can't always be right since they are also human beings. Though Whining and compaining as such won't be enough to reverse a decision depending on the case and depending on wether the person complaining is right or not.

Thank you.

[Katze]

Instead of an edit:

What I still wanted to say about you rule #2 is that there does not need to be that extra rule. If you don't treat others with respect you will be punished as much as if you treat a GM with disrespect. At least that is what it should be like imo.

If someone says "Duck you GM" for example I will always first warn him or her to stop like I would warn them to stop if they did that to another person. When they don't stop, they'll get a ban - again in both cases.

blah