Archers are too fast?

[Deimheucadh]

My friend Romashka and me (now named Deveka) are archers.
We use speed skill.
Also we use concentration potions for more speed.
We have to spend hours crunching mobs in the mine, in the cellar and in the beach, just for being able to buy many concentration potions.
I can not say nothing against players who prefer being warriors.

But please say me WHY WHY WHY
DO YOU THINK THAT I "STEAL" EXPERIENCE?

It is impossible, i cannot "steal" anybody's experience. If you a low level warrior in the graveyard, you can not manage with all the monsters, you can not get all experience. If you and me are fighting together with a zombie, you can get about 4000 xp, i can get about 6000 xp, that is true, because i am faster. But you can get more experience per 1 minute with me, than you can get fighting solo. We two can kill a zombie in 15 sec, you alone can kill zombie in 1 min.

Now please think, calculate and say me sincerely, what do you prefer:
getting per 1 min 6000 xp solo or getting 12000 xp together with a fast archer?

If you have answered honestly, please stop those stupid conversations about "stealing" experience. Please, stop threaten me, stop accusing, stop bringing jacko's, fallens, skulls and so on to me, stop imposing me your way and your speed of fighting, please stop!

I will play anyhow, and i can heal, by the way

[Frost]

My friend Romashka and me (now named Deveka) are archers.
We use speed skill.
Also we use concentration potions for more speed.
We have to spend hours crunching mobs in the mine, in the cellar and in the beach, just for being able to buy many concentration potions.
I can not say nothing against players who prefer being warriors.

But please say me WHY WHY WHY
DO YOU THINK THAT I "STEAL" EXPERIENCE?

I think that because my XP/min drops sharply when Romashka chops up the monsters I'm fighting.

It is impossible, i cannot "steal" anybody's experience. If you a low level warrior in the graveyard, you can not manage with all the monsters, you can not get all experience. If you and me are fighting together with a zombie, you can get about 4000 xp, i can get about 6000 xp, that is true, because i am faster. But you can get more experience per 1 minute with me, than you can get fighting solo. We two can kill a zombie in 15 sec, you alone can kill zombie in 1 min.

I agree that one cannot "steal" experience in this game. However, it is possible to target a monster that someone else is fighting and kill it so quickly that they get little XP from it. If you do this repeatedly, the other person will spend a larger proportion of their time finding monsters and walking to them. That effectively reduces their XP/minute.
Perhaps we can call it "out-competing" for monsters. Since technically one can not "steal" drops in this game, let's use the same term for the way that Romashka also takes all the drops. It's just competition.

Now please think, calculate and say me sincerely, what do you prefer:
getting per 1 min 6000 xp solo or getting 12000 xp together with a fast archer?

I prefer to play with friends, and usually do. Let's use real numbers here. Playing with friends in the graveyard, I typically see 4000 XP per monster (on average). With Romashka there, it's closer to 2500 XP. With two or three friends, my warrior can pretty much stay busy hacking away in the right side of the graveyard. With Romashka there, my XP/min drops by 1/3 to 1/2. I have to either sit around waiting for more to spawn or go elsewhere. Romashka often follows me.

If you have answered honestly, please stop those stupid conversations about "stealing" experience. Please, stop threaten me, stop accusing, stop bringing jacko's, fallens, skulls and so on to me, stop imposing me your way and your speed of fighting, please stop!

Actually, I think "stealing" is being used to refer to a competitive style of play. There's nothing wrong with that per se. Some people like to cooperate with friends to fight monsters or mobs which they could not fight alone. Some socialize and spend half their time chatting. Some prefer to fight monsters solo. Some choose to set up for maximum damage/min and compete with other players for drops and monsters. Some enjoy PvP combat with other players. The game allows for all of these styles.

I remember when Romashka used to play in the terranite cave and would attack other characters who got too close. In hindsight, I guess he was probably just trying to keep out the competition. Eventually, other players started to attack him too.
I see that same competitive spirit in the graveyard. He shows great skill both when attacking monsters and when dodging the attempts of other players to get him killed.

Here's why I sometimes "go after" Romashka. I try to match my play style to those around me. Most of the time, I prefer to play cooperatively and I seek out others with similar style. Sometimes I want a different challenge than zombies or terranites can provide, so I seek out others who like to compete. There's no hatred; it's part of the game.

In short, I don't think that this game is necessarily a popularity contest. Sure, some play that way, but it's not a requirement. If popularity isn't one of your priorities, just don't be surprised if you aren't very popular. These are real people, and ultimately they'll respond about the same as they do in the real world.
Romashka's style of play has earned my respect for his skill, not my affection.

I will play anyhow, and i can heal, by the way

Great to have you around! The graveyard usually needs more healers.

[Deimheucadh]

thanx for your sane points of view. i wrote this because i was affected by some players who started insult and threaten me after my little "help" in the graveyard. now i am looking for a fair way of playing near the players who choose ways of warrior or mage.

maybe you can see some xp getting rate decrease near an archer skilled in the speed. i have discussed it with my friends, and on the contrary they can see xp getting rate increase from 30% till 50% with me. by myself i can see 50-60% rate increase while playing near Romashka.

now i have started practising "gift xp" as compensation, 1 arrow that doubles xp for a solo player in the graveyard. though i spend about 75% of my game time crunching mobs in the cellar.

maybe this problem deserves some discussion for getting the fair style of playing for speedy archers. now i can see:
- playing solo or in company with another speedy archer, not "helping" the others, even they are overwhelmed by mobs;
- playing as usual with compensative "gifting";
maybe there can be more ways.

what about pvp zone in the terranite cave, i never been attacked there by an archer, though i was killed about 5 times by mages and about 5 times by warriors. archer is too weak in pvp, so i can compensate it in the graveyard laughing at players who tries to insult me, to threaten me with jacko's or fallens, to slow me with #betsanc.

[Zutan]

Archers have a benefit whether speed or range.

I know that my increased range seems to occasionally bother some as I can just stand in one place and attack almost everything on the screen. I try to be sure to share, I like some of the areas close to Hurnscald but if they are busy I go further.

As for xp boosting I strongly support that. It can be challenging with low hp monsters though, one hit can be most of their xp so really it just ends up helping me.

Thanks for discussing it, as a community we grow stronger when we work towards understanding each others points of view.

ps I am working on increasing my speed, but I really do like my range and the accuracy that comes with it.

[noelleionscowl]

Yeah...
I gave up on all that a while back. I couldn't get anywhere. I couldn't afford basic supplies, I wasn't strong enough to fight monsters with better drops *cough* TAYLORD, YOU BASTARD *cough* and I couldn't fight with anyone. And my magic seems to be broken.

Anyways, I can't go on TMW for a while. ciao all.

[chilikeren]

I just play this game for several day, but when i want to leveling against sea slime, romashka always do kill-steal of my monster T_T an he take another monster too. So, how i can leveling when he always disturbing when i hunt the sea slime. maybe you can see the Rules and etiquette in walktrough here:
http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Walkthrough
it say:
2. Do not kill-steal without permission (kill-steal: kill a monster someone else is fighting to get easy exp).

maybe it is better if him get banned

[Crush]

maybe you can see the Rules and etiquette in walktrough here:
http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Walkthrough
it say:
2. Do not kill-steal without permission (kill-steal: kill a monster someone else is fighting to get easy exp).

maybe it is better if him get banned

The etiquette mentioned in that article is not binding. Only the official game rules are.

[yubabax116]

its not that archers are to fast, you can be fast with anything you want including warriors, archer mages, archers and somewhat mages. But yes it is quite annoying while in the graveyard you are killing something then a archer who is doing more damage comes along and starts shooting the monster you are killing leaving you with no exp what so ever. I have had experience with this with romashka and i must say it is quite annoying esspecially when theres a whole bunch of other monsters he could be choosing from. Even if theres like 20 monsters he could be hitting instead he goes for the monster someone else is killing. I get agitated and i just leave the graveyard most times.



Yubaba

[Meemxes]

As long as there's no item stealing and there are plenty of mobs around I don't see a problem. Hitting a mob doesn't somehow claim it as my territory.

Maybe some archers think of it as a friendly gesture to kill a monster with someone else. Like saying "Hey, I'm with you". Or maybe they do it because it's efficient: focusing on one mob at a time minimizes the net damage capacity of a group of mobs. Or maybe they don't have a reason. Either way, I don't think working on the same mob hurts XP gain, so we all get our piece of the pie as long as there's no shortage.

It can be nice to share scarce resources like sea slimes. But as Crush said the rules don't say that anyone has a right to the sea slimes. Personally, I try to keep a stash of pearls so I don't have to rely on them. And hey, if other players put a zillion hours into being total bad-@$$ sea slime killers, it doesn't seem wrong for them to murder everything on the beach now and then. And it doesn't seem right to deprive them of that pleasure just because I'm there.

[yourmistakes]

i actually quite prefer levelling with a speed archer like romashka, because at least they can keep up with my dps.

[yubabax116]

you are also a higher level then some people and can hit faster so you can keep up with him. others cannot.

[bcs86]

Archers are not too fast. Monsters should keep pace.

Log Head would love to hurl an acorn at cowardly archers,
but isn't able at this time.

Bees lack concern for their flowers when under attack by
archers.

I think the Bandit Lord uses ranged attack.
Maybe I'm just seeing increased attack range.

[Nard]

First I'd like to say that frost has fairly well highlighted the aspects of the problem and I do agree with him.
I'd just like to underline that a lot or players now do not take any care of the lower level ones who could fight on the same map. May be most of us could watch how we play with others before complaining about a well skilled player. I do not see much players giving items to their healers or giving a small hit to help a lower leveled player in graveyard. I even saw, during this Easter event, some stop by a player trying to kill a mouboo with pain, kill it in several big & fast shots, and go away with both exp doubled and Reed Bundle. they were not Romashka but they played like him.

Romashka choose to play selfishly (he heals you if you do), he does not break any rules even when he bots behind the keyboard with Buckler and ChainBreaker. He cannot ask to get our friendship too
Note that he had the decency not to come to Candor raids where everybody was invited, nor Cindy's quests.

[skandarv]

Technically..I agree with Nard on that point..Most of us point towards Romashka stealing our exp..But then again..most of us do the same thing too ourselves..And yes..stealing exp and items is rampant..only less observed..

However..avoiding that is simple too..just ensure that you fight with people whom you know..and if you are in a group..most monsters are finished so quick nobody else will have time to come steal stuff..

Cheers