Female players

Post by **Modanung** » 05 Apr 2006, 14:47

Stereo-types are always recognisable. That's a fact. It is clear female characters are female if they walk like a fassion mannequin. I think that kind of walk would be a bit to much, but you know what I mean.
Btw, women also make shorter (and more) steps then men I think. Not because of their length.

Maybe in the far future we might have different body types as well, each with their sort-of unique walk. I doubt this though.

Post by **ElvenProgrammer** » 05 Apr 2006, 16:52

Yeah just keep in mind having different walking animations means we cannot share bottom equipments.

Post by **Rotonen** » 05 Apr 2006, 19:21

Well I think everyone aboard knows that in pixel art the workload required for variety (recoloring stuff is not the way we're going to do things) grows exponentially whilist in 3D it only grows linearly.

Post by **Modanung** » 05 Apr 2006, 20:28

Rotonen wrote:...whilist in 3D it only grows linearly.

I do hope you're not suggesting to go 3D.

Post by **Pajarico** » 06 Apr 2006, 14:03

Gonzalo wrote: The question would then be, are the first or the last ones forcing there walking ways? Perhaps those who play football etc. are making huge efforts to (no offense to your friends, please!) look less "feminine", because they just feel they're programmed.

Maybe I did wrong suggesting that the manly walking was not programmed because is not what I think, everyone has its own programmings... my point is that if we are going to say that in a phantasy world in another time and place people will act as do nowdays just because they are people, then that reasoning is botched IMO.
I don't try to stablish a universal criterium, is just my opinion

. And I agree, the way they walk doesn't matter "as long as they don't walk as top-models", that's why I append the second part of my post which the most important.

And I know I was going to get answers like that, but read a bit beyond of what is written. The background is how does their culture work? and as a consequence of that what's the role of the women?.
I find this important because it spans a lot of questions, not only about gender roles but also about the type of society: does women serve as guardians? are they submissive? are there salves? are there servants like there were in the Middles Ages? does women have a economic liberty or are under the men's yoke? etc, etc.

And the possibilities: popular revolts of slaves, groups of citizens claiming fro their vote, the possibility to buy a slave, or be enslaved!!

I have smashed myself against this wall before and sure I will do it again

.
You are trying to get this game a step ahead innovating in some areas but when I speak about something slightly deep about the social organization everyone seems like thinking "Hell, its just a game" which is true but that shouldn't stop us from going deeper and present a historyline really original instead of the worn-out scenario that every RPG out there presents. Don't base the story on the thinking of "its just a game" or "people are not gonna 'get it'\like it" because if you do you will end with yet another "take-key-kill-monster-open-chest"-type game.

And that's the evil of the current gaming industry.

Tarm · Post by **Tarm** » 06 Apr 2006, 16:37

I think you're doing it the hard way.The way most people handle that kind of choice is to look at excisting or historical societies and either chose one of them or a mix.
It's VERY hard to create a complex thing like a society.Add to that that you're also creating a whole "world" and it will get a bit to much.
Do as most do.Build on others ideas and work.

Post by **Pajarico** » 06 Apr 2006, 18:27

I think you're doing it the hard way.The way most people handle that kind of choice is to look at excisting or historical societies and either chose one of them or a mix.

That doesn't contradict anything in my statement.
And I don't understand who are "most people" since I have never played a game who made a *really* complex society system.

It's VERY hard to create a complex thing like a society.

Sure it is, but with a shade....
On the concept of "society" I see it as a mix of:
- A economic system.
- A political system.
- Cultural background.

And in my IMHO only the third need to be written from scratch.

The political and a economic systems were already planned, and those in terms of programming and fine-tunning will be have to be done from zero, no matter if you base them from pure reality or you take ideas from everywhere, but contrary to the cultural background those can and should be based on reality since everything boils down to offer and demand, capital, banks/prestamist, investors and workers, etc... things that had existed since always albeit in different forms (that's the link to a symbol on the present time).

So the first two are easy to make, the last one is the really and only hard one

. You see, only a third of the "society" concept is hard to make.

And is not a problem to experiment and set high standards. This project wouldn't be were it is today if the developers thought that it was going to be "too hard"

.

But I don't want to discuss anymore, at least not here, I have hijacked this for too long. If an admin could split this...

Website · Post by **yosuhara** » 06 Apr 2006, 18:30

uhm, are we still talking about female player set...?

Tarm · Post by **Tarm** » 06 Apr 2006, 19:22

My meaning with "most people" was writers, politicians, sociologist and that kind of persons.
Sure it could also mean game developers.

For me the cultural system seem to be the hardest of those three to invent.As you said.

I want a Amazon culture system!

Yeah we're talking about female player sets.The culture influence this a lot.
Do you want a playboy culture or a warrior women culture?

Website · Post by **yosuhara** » 06 Apr 2006, 19:36

Tarm wrote:My meaning with "most people" was writers, politicians, sociologist and that kind of persons.
Sure it could also mean game developers.

For me the cultural system seem to be the hardest of those three to invent.As you said.
I want a Amazon culture system!

Yeah we're talking about female player sets.The culture influence this a lot.
Do you want a playboy culture or a warrior women culture?

actually, something between this options

tobiasgall · Post by **tobiasgall** » 07 Apr 2006, 06:07

Maybe both forms - for different cities / nations, like a place with amazones, a kingdom, nomads etc. All this influences the attitude of the characters.

The social system is very important for things like the player look, NPCs, villages, etc.

The female players should have a "normal" social status (= the same social status as male players).
So females can look like warriors, wizzards, etc. Maybe you could completely change the look by changing the clothes. So you could have a dancer / bard character with a sexy outfit, and steel armor which looks very heavy and strong.

Post by **Rotonen** » 08 Apr 2006, 20:21

It's very nice to see how people suddenly got interested in the game world...

If only you would be willing to find the right topics too.

Ultim · Post by **Ultim** » 08 Apr 2006, 23:05

If later on some feminists or whatever come and attack us, I'll personally take the blame and fight them off.

Hahaha i second that. Which females will be playing our game though? i think we all have a similar view of the everyday gaming girl, and she doesn't really have any feministic (male) properties. Anime and those little paperdoll things internet girls constantly make all display femininity on crack. Super-female women. The cute and cuddly and very unpolitically correct. Anime uses this as a theme most of the time. There may be some exceptions, but this stuff is pretty prevalent in most of the girls who will be experiencing TMW.

Post by **Dave** » 09 Apr 2006, 01:19

I sketched this out a little bit ago, just to try for some basic form changes to the male playerset. As far as the argument about walking motions for females being more dainty and less aggressive, I'd have to agree. I have to ask however, will the playersets be limited to one (not to bring up this card already) white male and one white female?.. or will we have room to make more playersets as time goes on?

Anyhow, as far as the lady goes.. I think the key is (again, comparing to the male counterpart) .. hips up a bit, legs closer together.. and just generally smaller in frame. I didn't want to change it too much though, because I still don't know how equipment is to be applied and segregated.

(oh.. and sorry about the simple coloring if it doesn't feel quite up to par.. I just didn't want to run in here with a black and white frame like it started..

)

ElvenProgrammer wrote:Yeah just keep in mind having different walking animations means we cannot share bottom equipments.

I missed that and only read it after I made my post..

While it might be a significant amount of graphical work compared to building the genders identically, I would tend to think it's worth the effort. ..besides, the only way the equipment graphics can be unisex is if there is virtually no change in detail from males to females, in which case, they should just use the same playerset and just have different hairstyles and sound effects when they take damage.

biggeruniverse · Post by **biggeruniverse** » 09 Apr 2006, 03:51

o.O

Capt. Kirk is a woman?!?!??!??