Should Mana+ be allowed to hide important server messages?

[o11c]

Recently it has come to light that Manaplus has an option to hide the MOTD from the server. Previously, it would unconditionally hide it, .

We already know that players are incapable of reading the news. Is it really right to take away our last ditch attempt to contact them? I propose (in jest) that we put an entry in both news.txt and motd.txt that says "use the command @dontbanme or you will be permanently banned" and see what happens.

Except on the test server, the MOTD is only used for the most critical announcements, but normally contains just a single generic line of greetings. I don't see how it can possibly be annoying, but I ask both the player community and the TMWC for input.

My stance on the matter is that the TMWC should ask 4144 to remove the option to filter these messages.

(As an aside manaplus is also filtering some annoying notices from sagatha. I believe it is wrong that the client has this option either; that is one nice thing I can say about when Mana was the official client. An annoyance like that should be reported and fixed in server data, NOT in the client. How many other things is the client "helpfully" doing that we never know about and never are able to make a choice?)

[4144]

all motd visible in debug tab always, but default no annoyed over head pseudo speaking.
filter about global spam? this filter player can change in any way. Even if global is filtered it only moved to debug tab. By default filtered only sagatha.

this mean all messages always visible.

all settings you can change to opposite value and see all this different spam messages.

PS: About news. News possible to read from inside game: F1, "server news"

[wushin]

I'm fine with an option as long as it ships with this setting off and prompts the player when setting it.

[melkior]

ManaPlus is the official client for more than one game, and all of those games don't (and shouldn't) follow the same rules/allow the same settings etc.

I honestly think ManaPlus should show whatever TMWC wants it to show. The problem is, with an open source client, people can ignore whatever they want to. The majority of them won't, but still.

I think a nice clean solution would be server dictated client settings, something I proposed already in a different thread.

For those who are too lazy to click links, I've quoted the relevant post:

I left this topic alone for a while, even though I felt I had plenty to say about it. But maybe, I should throw in my two cents.

I... dislike the auto-follow ban. Auto-follow is an amusing feature, and this game could use more features like that. Let's face it, the social factor is probably TMW's strongest suit right now, and auto-follow lets players fool around in towns, do silly things and just have fun in general.

Of course, it also helps with botting, multi-boxing and whatnot.

Now, the thing is, most people wouldn't even mention auto-follow if this feature didn't exist in the client. As ManaPlus is the official client for more than one game, some of which allow this feature, people can see the option and they want to use it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ManaPlus already parses some plaintext/xml/whatever files from the server, things like news and the online list and so on.

Why not establish a new file which would store server-specific client settings. If a game fork wants to disable the shop option, they could just update the file and the client would disable that functionality, maybe even hide the settings for it completely.

Of course, if you expand on this, you could make auto-follow work only on certain maps, via the same mechanism.

For example (this could also be JSON or whatever you prefer):

Code: Select all

<xml>
<config>
   <AutoFollowAllow value ="false">
   <AutoFollowAllowExceptions value="true">
   <AutoFollowExceptions>
      <map>001-1</map>
      <map>009-1</map>
      ...
   <AutoFollowExceptions>
   <ShopAllow value="true">
</config>
</xml>

Of course, someone with ill intentions could easily modify the client not to care about such a configuration file. Most people wouldn't, though. Most people are happy with the supplied binary and don't even know how to modify a client.

But this would accomplish several things:

• You'd have clearly defined rules on what is allowed and what isn't on a particular server
• If a certain rule has exceptions, they'd be clearly defined, as well
• Most people wouldn't be able to go around such rules if they're using the default client
• This problem wouldn't happen again if ManaPlus implements a new feature that ends up being banned
• It would generally improve how various forks of the game co-exist with each other, considering they use the same client

As for those who'd modify their client to circumvent these rules, they are probably breaking the rules already, anyway. And I don't really see that as a problems. That's why we have GMs. In fact, with the implementation of additional clearly defined rules (which should also be provided as a human-readable text), the punishments for breaking the rules could and probably should be even harsher.

[o11c]

I'm fine with an option as long as it ships with this setting off and prompts the player when setting it.

I could live with that, but the problem is that motd-hiding is enabled by default. And even if the hard-coded default changes, anybody who has logged into the game the last few weeks will be stuck with it off still, and not know that it should be turned off.

[Frost]

Currently, the "important" login message reads:

Spoiler:

##32013-10-30##0

Happy Halloween!

Also, some minor bugs have been fixed with Waric and Rossy.
Alas poor Waric, Will he ever learn to behave properly?

-##2MadCamel##0


##32013-09-28##0

As you might have found out we had another restart yesterday.

Most of the changes for this restart are under the hood: this was
a Server Code release. Meaning the server's software was
changed but not the content. Hence user-facing changes are minimal,
but we'll outline below what's relevant.

The restart didn't work as smoothly as expected but we
are working hard on fixing all the issues which turned up.

Currently known bugs that affect players:
* None

Other bugs:
* GM logs are now full-buffered (faster) instead of line-buffered.
* Admin documentation is wrong.

Fixed bugs:
* Problems with startup speed (possibly not new, fixed anyway).
* Guildbot wouldn't start.
* Some accounts and storages with corrupted items were deleted.
* You can turn every direction except right.
* Inability to trade, except when naked.
* Warp bug related to the new Orum/Waric quest.
* Elemental bonus/malus not applied to magic.
* Update stats from the new CDN.
* Script bug with Kylian and checkweight.
* Drop order was wrong.
* Rossy caves now notice when you win fights.
* Fix an incorrectly marked assertion, which could fail.


##1If you encounter any more bugs or problems please
report back immediately. Post on the forums
@@http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 29@@##1##0

A big behavioural change has been made to the Login Server
From now on the login name is case sensitive, this means
it matters whether you write a capital letter or not.
##8e.g. if you registered an account name Test, and always
logged in as test, this now no longer works. You have to
log in as Test.##0
If you forgot how you originally registered your account,
and cannot log in, please checkout the forums
@@http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 17737@@##0.

Please be aware that these code changes were necessary to move
the game forward. The server was formerly very hard to work on or
modify. This update goes a long way to fixing that and will allow the
developers to bring you new and exciting things in the future.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience. We have been working
as hard as we can to fix all the issues above.

-##2TMW Development Team##0


##32013-09-14##0

We have a small content release today.
A witch in Tulimshar has found some daunting spells
for mages who are experienced in Astral Magic.
Talk to her about that. Maybe she is willing to teach you.

With this update, we have added some minor bugfixes for the
Waric script, Bluepar sprite and Wicked Mushroom sprite.

-##2TMW Development Team##0


##32013-09-03##0

##8First, a technical announcement. During a future
restart, TMW will start requiring your username
to exactly match the case that you signed up with.

Previously, this was enforced erratically, and led
to people losing access to their accounts. If, after
the update, you are unsure of the case of the account
##1and have already tried lowercase, UPPERCASE, and TitleCase,##8
please contact o11c or Frost.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled content news.##0

Today we have introduced two new pieces.

First of all, the Orum extension is finished.
Orum and his master Waric have set a new base
to mess with Sagatha. Seek them out! They
hide somewhere in the Caves north of Sagatha's
Forests.

Someone has seen a few new spells being used.
No one is yet sure what exactly it is but a dark aura
has been percieved somewhere north of Hurnscald.
Find it! Maybe you can gain something useful!

Last but not least we have to announce bad news
for the project but good news for her:
Jenalya has, after finishing the Orum extension,
resigned from her position as Lead Content
Developer. We dedicate this news to her and
wish her only the very best for her future. She
contributed beyond words and her leaving
will leave a spot we will have to work hard to fill.
Wushin and tux9th took over as Lead Content Developers
and give their best to bring quality content to you,
like Jenalya did.

-##2TMW Development Team##0


##32013-06-29##0

This release brings a few new additions to the game:

Wushin overhauled the desert caves with an awesome
new cave tileset. Also the sewers below Tulimshar are
now accessible. Make sure to check them out!

Malivox took the occasion to stop camping in the
desert and moved into a small house south of
Tulimshar.

Frozenbeard has expanded his ferry service in
Nivalis. You can now go between Nivalis and
the other major docks both ways. Proper docks for
Nivalis are being worked on.

With a ferry now serving Nivalis, Dyrin will send you
somehwere else in Kaizei instead, away from Nivalis.

As usual there are also a lot of smaller fixes and
changes. Thanks to everyone who reported issues
and helped fix these things!

-##2TMW Development Team##0


##32013-06-07##0

This weekend we're temporarily doubling both the
experience rate and the drop rates for all monsters,
to give the chance to recover from the rollback
we had due to filesystem corruption.

There are also some bug fixes and new content:

The craftsmen of Tulimshar have finally moved to the
renovated Forge at the Northern Market, so the
Wizard's Inn is back to offering a calm stay for visitors.

In the woodland area the mysterious Evil Obelisk which
summons beings from the astral plane for the mundane
price of gold has drastically reduced its demands.

On the technical side, in case of network congestion,
you will no longer be kicked with an invalid packet error.

-##2 TMW Development Team##0


##32013-06-05##0

We had a server crash, and had to restore everything from offline backup.

34 hours were lost, from about 17:30 (UTC) on 4 June to about 03:30 on 6 June. This affects the game, the forums, and the wiki.

We're going to set up hourly offsite backups of game, forum, and wiki data so that future outages are less painful.

-##2Frost##0


##32013-04-28##0

We're having a bugfix release today.

The main areas that have been fixed are Brodomir's PvP Cave
and Orum's quest, both in the
caves below Hurnscald.

Additionally, there were a lot of small fixes
on maps, spelling and grammar, and more.

We'd like to thank all the people who reported issues and helped
testing!

-##2Jenalya##0


##32013-03-21##0

Today we have a content release.

As always there are a number of bugfixes,
but also two new quests.

One of them is an annual Easter event created by Pjotr Orial.
It lasts from March, 22th to April, 25th, and can be
repeated every year.
Watch out around Hurnscald for some hidden Easter Eggs!

The other quest is about the admiration of a little
girl in Hurnscald that sees you growing from an
inexperienced adventurer to an impressive hero.
Backstage, this was also about a great community effort.
veryape conceived of the idea for this quest and was able
to make it happen with the help of many people who were
assisting with the graphics, scripting, spell checking,
testing and giving valuable feedback.

Lastly, Brodomir's cave under Hurnscald has been made
easier for attracting fighters from all over the world.

-##2Jenalya##0


##32013-03-17##0

After the initial server move, The Mana World was subjected
to a three day DoS attack.
In response, we have moved a final time to a server that has
better protection against such attacks.
All game related services have been moved and are back to normal.

-##2the TMWC##0


##32013-03-09##0

As of this Saturday, March 9, TMW moved to a new host.
This means there was some downtime, starting at 16:00 UTC.

Most work was done in 1.5 hours, with a brief shutdown later.
DNS settings may take a while to propogate.

For more information, see @@http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 17126@@##0

-##2the TMWC##0


##32013-02-21##0

Today we'll have a small content release.

Among code cleaning and bug fixes, the
Tulimshar quests can be done in any order now.
Their completion isn't necessary anymore
to start the Bandit quest.

Also, GMs may have a surprise for you someday.

-##2V0id##0


##32013-02-18##0

This is a really exciting news entry!

Congratulations to our sister project Mana (@@http://manasource.org|http://manasource.org@@##0)
on winning the Liberated Pixel Cup (@@http://lpc.opengameart.org/content/code ... is-in@@##0).

The project can be found at @@http://www.sourceoftales.org/news.html| ... .html@@##0
and the irc channel at @@irc://chat.freenode.net#sourceoftales|irc://chat.freenode.net#sourceoftales@@##0.

We will undoubtedly experience an influx of both
ordinary players and potential developers since we
were linked as a related project.

As a developer, it is my goal and expectation that
new players can figure things out on their own.
After all, I once did - though there wasn't as
much content back then (I feel old ...).

As for new contributors, they will necessarily need
to coordinary with us, the developers. We're always
in need of pixel artists, have great capacity for
quest writers, and currently have need for a bit of
web development and people crazy enough to touch
insides of the server code.

Be aware that people have different time zones and
busy schedules, so it may be a while before anyone
responds.

Now, the links:

Server coding: @@irc://chat.freenode.net#tmwa|irc://chat.freenode.net#tmwa@@##0

Everything else: @@irc://chat.freenode.net#themanaworld-dev|irc://chat.freenode.net#themanaworld-dev@@##0

Forums: @@http://forums.themanaworld.org/|http:// ... .org/@@##0

-##2o11c and Jenalya##0


##32013-01-31##0

ManaPlus Support

We have decided to support ManaPlus as an
official client alongside Mana. In fact, since
there will likely be no more releases of the
Mana client that supports TMWA (this server),
there will inevitably be a time when ManaPlus
becomes the only supported client.

Mana 0.6.1 will continue to receive some
support until October 2013. We have no plans
to specifically break compatibility with Mana,
but new features may not be available.

For older clients (whether Mana or ManaPlus),
there will be different levels of attempted
support, depending on exactly how old it is:

* Less than 6 months old: will not crash or
behave erratically.
* Less than 2 months old: will behave
expectedly, but might not support all features.
* Last 2 releases: will do everything,
correctly, on the main server.
* Last release, or even git, may be required
on the test server.

Of course, if a particular client release is
buggy, we may not be able to support it at all.

For more details, see @@http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 16867@@##0.

ManaPlus is available at @@http://manaplus.evolonline.org/|http:// ... .org/@@##0

-##2o11c##0


##32013-01-26##0

Content Release January 2013

This release brings a huge amount of small fixes
and changes, including fixes of several spelling
and map errors, which were reported by players.
Thanks for that!

There are a few new things nevertheless:
New characters won't have to start their
adventure in underpants anymore,
and Doug in Dimond's Cove discovered that the
lamps in his room wear off after a while.

-##2Jenalya##0


##32013-01-23##0

News feed is finally generated from the same
source for both the game and the website.

-##2o11c##0


##3December 2012 again##0

A new peninsula has magically raised from the depths,
south of Hurnscald. A witch seems to be the source of
this strange phenomenon.
Why is she here, and what does she want?

Further on the west, Lora Tay is willing to accept
new challenges to prove once more her skills.

##3December 2012##0

Santa and his helpers have returned to Santa's residence
near Nivalis to prepare for Christmas.
Among the helpers, the preparations are moving smoothly
as they should.
The reinboos are excited this year since there will be a change
within their team!
But not everything is working out as planned.

##3November 2012##0

Halloween has passed and several cities celebrated this event.
It seems the farmer Oscar just came back from a long journey
in one of these cities.
Probably he will have exciting things to tell.

##3October 2012##0

The roadblock to the north east in Argaes was finally lifted
and parts of the road were reconstructed.
But there is still some work left until the connection to Port City is done.
In the Woods you can find a guy who lives alone, seeking seclusion.
Be careful not to disturb him. He is very vicious.

The smith's apprentice Peter does good progress in mastering his
handcraft and learned some new techniques.

##3September 2012##0

Agostine is well known for his magnificent winter clothes,
but he always dreamed of creating something truly exquisite,
something noble...

An old veteran has set up camp in the caves below Hurnscald
after a life full of hardship and battle.
He may be old now, but he surely didn't lose his interest
in the art of combat!

There's no way in hell I'm going to read that every time I log into the game.
If players choose to not read that, they're not necessarily "incapable;" maybe they just don't see the value.
Despotic rules will only alienate players and are doomed to failure in such an open culture as TMW.
Fix the value proposition, and people will read it.

[AnonDuck]

I really like the sound of melkior's proposal. Since mana+ is a client for multiple games, it makes sense to have game-specific settings.. And server-side would be convenient.

I realize this will add further complexity to the client, but I think it may save a lot of trouble in the future.

[4144]

Currently, the "important" login message reads:
There's no way in hell I'm going to read that every time I log into the game.
If players choose to not read that, they're not necessarily "incapable;" maybe they just don't see the value.
Despotic rules will only alienate players and are doomed to failure in such an open culture as TMW.
Fix the value proposition, and people will read it.

Motd messages is much "better" it show what player connected to "the mana world".
But player already know where is she/he connected from login dialog.

Anyway all messages always visible but in less annoyed form.

[4144]

I really like the sound of melkior's proposal. Since mana+ is a client for multiple games, it makes sense to have game-specific settings.. And server-side would be convenient.

I realize this will add further complexity to the client, but I think it may save a lot of trouble in the future.

ManaPlus already have file for this.
But i not sure what enable spam on server without possible change is good idea.

For now this file (features.xml) support option for show/hide lang tab. It was disallowed to use it in tmw
About follow, I can add it too. But here issue what this is restrective option and some people can simply ignore new versions.
Hm, but i will add this option with default allowed.

[o11c]

Currently, the "important" login message reads:

Spoiler:

##32013-10-30##0

Happy Halloween!

There's no way in hell I'm going to read that every time I log into the game.

That's just news; it does not currently contain any important message (neither does the MOTD, right now). But at times, they do, and I as a player always read the news when it *changes*, and look at it long enough to notice whether it changed.

[Frost]

I as a player always read the news when it *changes*, and look at it long enough to notice whether it changed.

If we keep the login message relevant to people, most will read it, or -- as you say -- at least look if it changed.
If we don't make the login message relevant to people, most will not read it.

We can add a nuisance-click, but if we want people to read, we have to offer sufficient value.

[pimealika]

Ignorance is bliss!

[Hello=)]

Recently it has come to light that Manaplus has an option to hide the MOTD from the server.

I think it is. After all anyone can change the code and there is not need to have yet another bastardized and "improved" fork(s) which would allow players to enforce preferences (together with adding couple of bots as bonus, etc). Sure, defaults should be sane (motd shown) but if someone does not want to see it, its okay. Even if they're about to shoot their legs, it's up to them. It's wrong to forbid shooting own legs (as long as it does not hurts others in this process). And IMO I may sometimes want even to ignore globals. Say, when GMs are using them too much instead of chat, etc. Take a look on advanced IRC clients: you can ignore anything (through wildcards, etc). And if player's butt is getting grilled as the result of ignorance and outsmarting self - okay, player have to blame yourself . Do not see how its wrong.