Attracting new players VS client version requirements

[veryape]

Hello

I just had a chat with Prism about how we both feel that the playerbase is shrinking over time.

I think we pinpointed a problem, firstly we started talking about what sets us apart from other games, the only think we could think of is mainly two things, firstly we are a GPL-game, second it is kind of a throwback to zelda-like graphics etc.

Our biggest external problems is that other games are more easily available, there are tons of games on facebook etc that attract people that play that instead of something like this, not just causual games but games where they build characters/empires (think farmville).

Our biggest internal problem is that when people has seen our game, become interested and install the client from their linux-dist repo they can't play because the version in their dist isn't supported anymore (can't download the updates). So the first thing we need to do is to get them to understand that they need the latest client and then add a repo or install from sources - this is a hard threshold to start play a game. If i were a noob and those were the prerequisites I would probably walk away.

Could we either push newer versions of manaplus to the popular distros repos? (ubuntu is probably the most important one). If that is not possible can we set the least needed version to the one in the last LTS repo? If everything doesn't work perfectly i think we could have a disclaimer in the motd-text at the top that always say "To get all the latest features please install the latest client from www.manaplus.org" or something like it.

Just a thought

[prsm]

+1

[wushin]

+0, It's a tad complicated.

First in order to support the new features, we have to force a Manaplus upgrade because Manaplus simply doesn't have a "features.xml" we can check yes or no to using. He changes it in the Manaplus code to allow TMW to use it.

Next I do believe 4144 does push packages out to the more popular repos. Next Manaplus is 4144's project not TMW's. He make decides if and when any of this happens.

TMW had a client and we abandoned it in favor of Manaplus because it was being developed. The tmw and mana packages continue to lurk out there as well. (SourceForge & Portable apps)

TMW has no package maintainer on staff currently.

We, as TMW, do everything in our power to facilitate the ease of downloading and upgrading. We do have a FAQ we could add a better description to on the wiki FAQ

Now, I'm sure 4144 would love to have people help him with package maintenance.

[veryape]

Yeah, I am fully aware of the problems.

But still, if people install a game from their default repo, try to connect and get an error message chances are that they move on and forget about us. The least thing we can do is to have an error message that gives the info "Outdated client, get the the latest one on http://manaplus.org".

I think that this might be a real issue and something we should try and solve in the best possible manner.

Now I don't have a clue about how the package repos in big distribution works, but i guess it is kind of political. Much bigger projects than our have a hard time getting their last releases in there (gimp for example). Is it possible to make a package that then checks for the latest version itself and upgrades itself? Without thinking too much about it it should be possible in linux, but it might have to be quite a cludge with non-standard directories etc for the user that is running the program to have the rights to write everywhere and having it all in its own subdirectory of /opt or something might not be a good solution. But I believe we got to solve this one way or another.

[o11c]

It is forbidden to use the latest version of software in most distros.

[wushin]

Added a FAQ item which is a step in the right direction.

Asides from mimicking what 4144 already has on the manaplus site we can't do much more without asking to help him with package maintenance.

The other option is TMW forking on maintaining there own copy of Manaplus and then maintaining our own packages, but that is a lot of work. Which we don't have people do to do.

[_Cordo_]

I have some disagreement regarding ease, or complication in attaining the game software. Attaining the software is rather easily done regardless of distribution political, social issues. As even wushin states 4144 does provide repositories for various major linux distributions.

Believe instructions for adding those repositories to your distribution's own repository listing are straightforward and easy to comprehend. After that, it may require a

Code: Select all

user@host$ sudo aptitude install , user@host$ sudo apt-get install, user@host yum install

to get the software. Not too difficult in my view.

Then in linux if using a package manager, it should pass off to an automatic update program to update packages when available. So, installation and updating do not appear an issue from my view.

Many players enjoy the zelda like graphics. Many do not. Those who do will come, play and stay. Those who do not may stray.

Over all though I do not see that as much of an issue either. Look at how well zelda did. Ah, but it had a story line, contextual meat on the bones of the coding. This game once did as well. I think many have lost sight of that, and think that may be a portion of why players are not attracted, or leave.

But I am probably trolling & off topic, despite addressing both issues you discuss here in player talk. Oh well ...

[Xtreem]

I realized that the server is well below the number of players for what he had before.
And I think one of the reasons may be the "end game"
Unfortunately, the "end game" we are currently not very nice.
After reaching the maximum level we have to do?
try to get all the rare? After a while it gets boring.

I think if you have a good "end game"
The players will return old, who are still playing will become longer and therefore new players.

This is my opinion.

end game is what you have to do when you are at the maximum level. If someone does not know

[Mr.SlothFromSpace]

As Xtreem point it out, the "end game" is quite boring, you don't have much to do besides sitting in town. One solution for that is to put more dungeons like maps with a final bosses with a very rare drop (the crypt for example with the General). We got tons of item waiting for a quest, why not use some of them as a very rare drop?

Regards,
MR.SlothFromSpace

[jasm]

Pirates map should have a dungeon too, make the Eye Patch a very hard to get drop for example. But i also think that pirates are too strong, their Critic % is too high, lower it and you will start seeing more players there.

[Mr.SlothFromSpace]

Pirates map should have a dungeon too, make the Eye Patch a very hard to get drop for example. But i also think that pirates are too strong, their Critic % is too high, lower it and you will start seeing more players there.

The eye patch can't be a drop item. Its considered the rarer "hat" in game. As I said, we have tons of item waiting for a quest, there is no need use a item already in game.
As a matter of fact the pirates have to be strong, the purpose of dungeons is that you need a solid group to finish it.

Regards,
Mr.SlothFromSpace

[Cassy]

Pirates map should have a dungeon too, make the Eye Patch a very hard to get drop for example. But i also think that pirates are too strong, their Critic % is too high, lower it and you will start seeing more players there.

I already reduced the pirates' LUK from 80 to 60, warriors can fight them too now

Btw I disagree with all suggestions about making current unobtainables regular drops, regardless of drop chance.
If we ever make unobtainables obtainable again then in a way they are still super rare and not grindable (still possible with low drop chances).

[jasm]

Ok, so what about the hats they wear i think i saw them somewhere, make them dropable please.

[Kazenawa]

Pirates map should have a dungeon too, make the Eye Patch a very hard to get drop for example. But i also think that pirates are too strong, their Critic % is too high, lower it and you will start seeing more players there.

I already reduced the pirates' LUK from 80 to 60, warriors can fight them too now

Btw I disagree with all suggestions about making current unobtainables regular drops, regardless of drop chance.
If we ever make unobtainables obtainable again then in a way they are still super rare and not grindable (still possible with low drop chances).

One of the rarest drop is for instance the amethyst dropped by a Terranite (0.2%). I've picked a Terranite because it may require about the same time to kill one than to kill a pirate. Add 5 or 6 zeros to it, making it (0.0000002% drop rate), or even more if you want, and only a very lucky people will get one. With enough zeros, it would be useless to grind for it, since you would have gotten 10 times the money you need to buy it...

Thus, you could still grind it, but you would loose more than you would gain. In addition, the monster that would drop it should respawn slowly (few of them at the same time), and should be surrounded by many monsters quite hard to beat. This way, you'd still have a very low chance of getting it, painfully, but at leats you would have a chance.

I think it would be more consistent for super rares to be dropped than to "appear" from nowhere... Plus, as it is still possible to get it, maybe you'll keep some people addicted. If you don't want to make current super rares available this way, why not about unreleased items ? There is plenty of them... It is not obliged to make a quest for each of them... You'd simply have to grind, and quests often consist in grinding anyway...

[jasm]

0.0000002% drop rate is harder than grinding for 50kk gp and finding someone that will sell you one, but at least theres a chance of getting one, which would make many players stay longer.