[WIP] The village of Saltern

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fraeuleinwunder
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by fraeuleinwunder » 16 Apr 2009, 20:40

Glad you could use that.

I'm not sure if I understood everything correctly (I'm not english), to sum up what I understood:

You'd like to have tiles that fit the current woodland tiles but have some sort of stronger decline/cliffs without looking to regular.

Would it be ok if it would look a bit different than the current woodland tiles or would you like to still be able to fit them together? I thought it could be nice to have this "fertile valley" feeling with a bit higher grass, but a bit less saturated green, large chunks of rock with plants growing on them, water dripping (well, not animated ;)) from the walls of the valley and so on. Or had you more the "desert like" type of valley in mind? I considered making some sort of "border" tiles, that could be used to connect to the woodland tiles, but making different stuff for the rest, so it could have it's own mood on it. I mean, this could enhance the feeling that the inhabitants led a completely cut off lifestyle so far, perhaps founded by some long lost exploration party or a group of people who wanted to undisturbed lead their own (perhaps more philosophical orientated) life until the passage had just recently been discovered by some over motivated miners or whatever..;)

I just had the idea of making it a bit like the epicuraeic (?) (I mean the greek philosopher, don't know if theres a fitting adjective) gardens, like a commune of thinkers, nature lovers..that would make some nice quests possible, like solving some riddles, collecting stuff for inventors..

well, just some brainstorming, but the graphics depend on the spirit that should be submitted.
so that it would work better for larger drops or could be used to drop down in steps without seeming too regular that would work well.
Sorry, I didn't fully unterstand that, could you please explain in easier English?
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Inkweaver » 16 Apr 2009, 20:49

I thought it could be nice to have this "fertile valley" feeling with a bit higher grass, but a bit less saturated green, large chunks of rock with plants growing on them, water dripping (well, not animated ;)) from the walls of the valley and so on.
That is exactly the sort of tiles I was thinking of.
I just had the idea of making it a bit like the epicuraeic (?) (I mean the greek philosopher, don't know if theres a fitting adjective) gardens, like a commune of thinkers, nature lovers..that would make some nice quests possible, like solving some riddles, collecting stuff for inventors..
That sounds perfect, right on. It fits into me scheme with the "herb" garden and everything else.

This is a long shot, but maybe some sort of art or sculptures to decorate the area. Perhaps these people carve stone sculptures out of the wall of their hideaway.

But that's not a priority. It would just be nice to have the tileset first.
Sorry, I didn't fully unterstand that, could you please explain in easier English?
I meant that I needed tiles that would allow me to make a steeper cliff without the tile pattern becoming obvious.

I think that you are right on track, thinking the same way I do. This idea will work out if we get all the ingredients together. :)

I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by fraeuleinwunder » 16 Apr 2009, 22:03

Ok, that sounds really good!

And thanks for explaining, now I can start working on it, hope I can post something to look at soon. :)
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Inkweaver » 16 Apr 2009, 22:37

I'm looking forward to it. :)
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by fraeuleinwunder » 19 Apr 2009, 21:25

Hello,

here is a small picture composed of some tiles I made (middle cliff, one side each, grass, some stone things with some sort of hieroglyphes on them).
clifftest.png
clifftest.png (19.61 KiB) Viewed 898 times
This isn't too refined yet and it might have perspective issues, but I just wanted to share and ask if this is the thing to go for or if I should better start a new scheme. ;)
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Inkweaver » 19 Apr 2009, 21:29

It definitely looks to me like it has potential. The colors might be a little bit too saturated though. If you make them a little darker they will fit into the rest of the world better.

The perspective is a little off. Perhaps some of the other pixel artists can offer a better critique?

Good start, though. :)
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Inkweaver » 19 Apr 2009, 21:32

Oh, one more note Sarah. You'll probably get better comments on your art if you post it in:

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6405

That is thread for graphics for Saltern.
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Jaxad0127 » 19 Apr 2009, 22:12

Inkweaver wrote:Oh, one more note Sarah. You'll probably get better comments on your art if you post it in:

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6405

That is thread for graphics for Saltern.
Yes, please keep graphics in the graphics forum.
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by fraeuleinwunder » 20 Apr 2009, 20:19

Ok, thank you and sorry, I'll do that for future issues!
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by John P » 21 Apr 2009, 19:42

I don't really understand this village, but because it is so unique it works to draw away from redundancy. I do have some technical questions about this village. I think it is crucial for a village to be able to validate its existence, purpose, etc. I saw that this project is on hold based on location, but I believe if it is a valid town, then the story and the artwork can be worked on anyway, and if this project is discarded the work can be applied to new places.

Does the village have a back story? Not that you necessarily have to post it, you can save it as a surprise for implementation, but why did the people involved decide to make a village in a hole (this is a hole, not a valley)? What made this hole, old mining venture? Do herbs grow better in holes, being that they get less wind and sun, and probably more water - which is my next question - does it rain in the woods and does that affect Saltern? Or do the woodlands only get water from mountain runoff? Either way, it seems one day it's the village of Saltern, the next it's Lake Saltern.

Why would these people make a village surrounded by monster-filled caves? Are they a village of strongmen and bad asses that live there to prove something, or do they feel the monsters provide them some kind of imbalanced security? Or because they dwell within the caves themselves, they only like limited sunlight?

Do you plan on making cave-entrances more constructed? I think these people who paved the ground, created bridges a stage, gardens, etc, wouldn't enter the cave through a mallet-generated hole, but instead have archways or something.

Thanks, cheers
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Inkweaver » 21 Apr 2009, 20:10

Excellent questions, John! Here is the current backstory as I visualize it. Feel free to criticize and critique it.

Backstory for the Village of Saltern


The first thing that must be considered is the basic geography both of the city and the surrounding terrain. Saltern is located in a relatively mountainous area, surrounded by impassable cliffs on all side. The only way to get to the village is through caves and abandoned mine tunnels that snake through the interior of the rocky mountains. The village of Saltern was not always so cut off from the rest of the world. Once there was a mountain pass that led up through the mountains to the village. The first Saltern settlers travelled up this pass and settled in the small area because the discovered that the surrounding mountains were full of valuable minerals and ores. Over time digging the mine tunnels resulted in slag piles that were imprudently dumped in seemingly convenient areas of the mountain. These slag piles increased in size, and gradually they became unstable. Then an earthquake occurred.

Part of the village was destroyed by landslides, and the giant slag piles shifted and fell, completely blocking off Saltern from the rest of the world. Many of the people of Saltern panicked, but some cool headed miners decided to create an escape route through the mountains. Unfortunately the formerly safe mine tunnels were now very dangerous. Not only had many of them been damaged by the earthquake, but a strange fracture of the mountain had created an opening to a dark, dangerous system of caverns that were full of mutant monsters that had been cut off from the rest of the world for decades. They now flooded the mine tunnels, killing many of the miners. Only the bravest and strongest miners survived to fight off the monsters and finish the tunnel that would allow people to escape from Saltern.

By the time the tunnel was done most of the people of Saltern had already used it to escape. However, some people remained. These people fell into two main categories: tough miners who were willing to fight off the monsters to gather the valuable things still to be found in the mines, and a newly developing group of artistic, hippies who use the isolated area of Saltern as a base for their socially advanced, herb growing, peace loving lifestyle.

The tough miner group leads the way in efforts to explore and map the dangerous new cavern tunnels that were revealed by the earthquake that cut off Saltern. The tunnels seem to have no end, instead the lead deeper and deeper into the earth. Within these tunnels are numerous treasure chests. They are not easy to open, involving difficult procedures, special keys, test, etc, but when opened they are full of valuables such as pearls, dark crystals, money, etc.

The hippie group lives in the open area of Saltern, some on the ground, others on platforms built onto the walls of the cliffs. They grow herbs to sell to people in the rest of the world. No one has ever been quite sure why the herbs grow so well in the area of Saltern. It might be something in the soil, or it might some secret ingredients or process that only the hippies know about.

To answer your question about Lake Saltern, the village of Saltern can not turn into a lake because it is drained by the canal running through it. This canal takes any water that would fall into the village area and drains it off through the mine tunnels.
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by John P » 22 Apr 2009, 02:21

not bad, not bad! I'm impressed, thanks.

If the capitalist miners and the communist hippies don't get along, I'm sold!

Maybe the hippies are markedly religious, maybe even monks, who remain at the fault (ground zero where the mountains uplifted to surround the city or slag fell, etc) and pray, worship, and do good deeds in order to appease the Gods that they not do any more damage.

I picture a seasonal reloading of the outdoor map where some time the channel is empty of water (maybe a seasonal quest available down there in the water bed), sometimes it is peaceful, and some parts of the year it is moving so quickly it is dangerous to cross (not really dangerous, just has white-water to it, you know?) or maybe the bridge is out/submerged.

I like the 'maybe' or we don't really know why the herbs grow so well. The miners claim it is nutrients in the soil, the monks believe it is evidence of the gods' appeasement.


I can see why it is hard to find a place for this village. Also, the concept of mining seems to cover so many areas of the world. The desert, central, north, south woodlands. Its almost as if the mining should be the bane of the God's work or something.
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Re: [WIP] The village of Saltern

Post by Inkweaver » 22 Apr 2009, 23:58

I love your thinking! :) You took a few of my thoughts and extended them to their natural conclusions. Here is the updated backstory, with all my new ideas.

Big change: I have found an area that might work for the village, pending approval from the devs. This might be a good place to put this idea into action. You can read about it below.

Backstory for the Village of Saltern

Location

The first thing that must be considered is the basic geography both of the city and the surrounding terrain. Saltern is located in a relatively mountainous area, surrounded by impassable cliffs on all side. The only way to get to the village is through caves and abandoned mine tunnels that snake through the interior of the rocky mountains. The village of Saltern was not always so cut off from the rest of the world. Once there was a mountain pass that led up through the mountains to the village.

The village of Saltern would fill up with rain water if it weren’t for a canal that runs through the village and drains off through the mine tunnels. Some times during the year this canal dries up because the natural springs in the walls of the cliffs dry up and there is little rainfall. Then the water level falls, allowing explorers to go down into different parts of the caverns that are now accessible because they are dry.

Quote:

“I picture a seasonal reloading of the outdoor map where some time the channel is empty of water (maybe a seasonal quest available down there in the water bed), sometimes it is peaceful, and some parts of the year it is moving so quickly it is dangerous to cross (not really dangerous, just has white-water to it, you know?) or maybe the bridge is out/submerged.”


How the Location fits into the rest of the World

Saltern is located near the Rocky Northern Coast. Notice how it would fit into the description on the wiki:

Cliffs and a few small plateaus separate the valley below from the coast. Various summits can be reached without climbing the rock-face, only by entering the caverns within the cliffs, but beware; the caves can be very dangerous. Going up leads you with moderate ease to the summits, but going down leads to unknown depths. Since the caves were discovered, people have been trying to reach the bottom, but lower levels continue to be found.

Information taken from wiki at:

http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Argaes

So basically, Saltern would be a stopping point in the mountains. It is a place for explorers of the caverns to rest, and regroup before going back in. This place fits my idea very well, and I think Saltern fits the wiki idea very well.

Basic History of Saltern

The first Saltern settlers travelled up the open mountain pass and settled in the small area because the discovered that the surrounding mountains were full of valuable minerals and ores. Over time digging the mine tunnels resulted in slag piles that were imprudently dumped in seemingly convenient areas of the mountain. These slag piles increased in size, and gradually they became unstable. Then an earthquake occurred.

Part of the village was destroyed by landslides, and the giant slag piles shifted and fell, completely blocking off Saltern from the rest of the world. Many of the people of Saltern panicked, but some cool headed miners decided to create an escape route through the mountains. Unfortunately the formerly safe mine tunnels were now very dangerous. Not only had many of them been damaged by the earthquake, but a strange fracture of the mountain had created an opening to a dark, dangerous system of caverns that were full of mutant monsters that had been cut off from the rest of the world for decades. They now flooded the mine tunnels, killing many of the miners. Only the bravest and strongest miners survived to fight off the monsters and finish the tunnel that would allow people to escape from Saltern.

By the time the tunnel was done most of the people of Saltern had already used it to escape. However, some people remained to live in Saltern.

People of Saltern

The Miners


The people of Saltern fall into two main categories: tough miners who were willing to fight off the monsters to gather the valuable things still to be found in the mines, and a newly developing group of artistic, hippies who use the isolated area of Saltern as a base for their socially advanced, herb growing, peace loving lifestyle.

The tough miner group leads the way in efforts to explore and map the dangerous new cavern tunnels that were revealed by the earthquake that cut off Saltern. The tunnels seem to have no end, instead the lead deeper and deeper into the earth. Within these tunnels are numerous treasure chests. They are not easy to open, involving difficult procedures, special keys, test, etc, but when opened they are full of valuables such as pearls, dark crystals, money, etc. The miners are convinced that some ultimate treasure lies at the bottom of the caverns, far beneath the ground. But no one has ever found the deepest level of the caverns. They just seem to descend farther and farther without end.

The Hippies

The hippie group lives in the open area of Saltern, some on the ground, others on platforms built onto the walls of the cliffs.

The hippies are religious and they pray, worship, and do good deeds in order to appease the Gods that they not do any more damage. They feel that the earthquake that destroyed the first Saltern was a judgement from the Gods on the materialistic lifestyle that had been prevalent.

The hippies spend their time performing on the local stage, meditating in the aura of Soul Menhir and mixing up herb concotions. They grow herbs in Saltern to sell to people in the rest of the world. No one has ever been quite sure why the herbs grow so well in the area of Saltern. The miners claim that herbs grow here because of nutrients in the soil, the monks believe it is evidence of the gods' appeasement.

What is Needed for the Project

Graphics
  • Rocky mountain tileset. This tileset should look like mountain cliffs, boulders, a very rocky terrain. It should have large cavern openings to put in the side of the cliffs.
    Saltern tileset. This tileset should be made up of buildings that fit into the surrounding terrian. They should be mostly wood, some should be suspended on platforms along the cliff walls. There should be a stage for performing arts etc.
    NPC’s: Characters that look like tough miners, characters that look like hippies.
Items (also involves Graphics for the items.)

Hippie Clothing:

Comes from hippie quests, things like a tie-dye shirt, a peace symbol amulet for the neck. Ideas for the peace symbol amulet: It keeps normally aggressive enemies from attacking you. This item would be in high demand from players who aren’t high enough level to make it through the dangerous caverns that lead to Saltern.

Weapons:

A pickaxe. This weapon should have an attack similar in strength to the scythe, but it should have an extremely high attack speed. Basically this is a weapon that you can swing back and forth and strike both ways. Maybe an attack speed twice as fast as the setzer. However, this would probably require a new player attack animation.

NPC possibilities:

Old woman hippie and her herb garden. An old woman who has a fenced in area full of herbs. When you click on her she says that she is willing to let you in for a price. You have the option of distracting her attention “hey look over there, its a jacko!” and slipping in to ransack her garden. Once inside though, if you cheated the poor old woman you discover that the fence is magic and you can’t leave until she lets you. You need to pay some sort of restitution or do some work for her until you pay off the damage you did to her garden. On the other hand if you pay for the privilege she lets you gather a certain number of herbs before she kicks you out of her garden because you have damaged to many plants. Then you have to pay another fee to get back in later.
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