Bots Warning,

[Len]

Which honestly, I can not see how someone makes their money personally affects anyone else. Or if someone even bots levels. Seriously how does this affect you?

Give me a real argument besides, "it's not fair".

The more money in the game the more players charge for stuff, which makes it harder and harder to buy things if you play normally.

[Necromokron]

Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.

Why don't GM's IP ban bots itstead of just account banning, which is near useless, unless the botters are using proxies, then we're screwed.

[theboomboomcars]

Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.

Why don't GM's IP ban bots itstead of just account banning, which is near useless, unless the botters are using proxies, then we're screwed.

Because most people connect to the 'net through DHCP and their IP will change and someone else will get the IP address. So an innocent person will not be able to play anymore whereas the bot will.

[Jaxad0127]

Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.

It was?

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =12&t=9021

Next!

Botting as we define it (and we've carefully defined it) was never allowed.

[Link , hero of time]

Your message contains 111485 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60000.

Len
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:34 am

Retired TMW Developer



Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:17 am
Posts: 1113
Location: Lurking in the shadows
skipy wrote:
"harsh penalty for death"(imo) would improve game play as well

dare i say a loss in xp

my 2 pennys

TMWs community is a little too dress up game, for that....



The only other way is to do something dim-witted like Runescape is known for doing
example: let's say after every 500 kills you automatically receive a whisper of a random math question or common knowledge question. You have 5 minutes to replay to the question if you fail to replay or answers incorrectly a GM is notified to check you out.
Example: you killed 500 monsters
Server whispers: Your playing The Mana World... True or False

_________________
Whispers of Avalon
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Whispers_of_Avalon/index/


Top

Leo6607
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:36 am

Novice



Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:41 am
Posts: 172
Location: Australia born in Germany
Would it be possible to lose lvl's from EXP Loss, or just get down to 0% ..? (If it's put into the game, that is..) Btw, I like the idea of the question thing :p

_________________
Leo from The Holy Mana Clan!

Level 72 now, wooh! xD (My main char is now Leo!)


Top

CapitanAwesome
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:52 am

Game Master



Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Everywhere... In the shadows... Waiting...
iamWayne wrote:
Accordingly, Botting is against the rules.

Botting as made reference to TMW: Is any activity that will give an upper-hand(Advantage) whithout the user interacting with the game or activity while AFK(Away from Keyboard). example; resting hand on the keyboard , killing monsters while sleeping.


As much as i applaud your initiative in helping the community rid itself of the botting menace, I would like to clear something up.

Resting a hand on your keyboard shouldnt be considered botting, as the player is physically at the computer controlling the character.

This has been my method for a while now, it allows me to watch tv, and also chat with other players while my characters level up =)

Keep up the good work folks, and remember, if you suspect a fellow member of the community is botting, simply send a message to the GM team with the command '@wgm <message>'

Simply replace <message> with the name and location of the suspect and someone will investigate.

Cheers

Cappy =)

_________________
CapitanAwesome - Game Master - server.themanaworld.org


Top

Kage
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:38 pm

TMW Developer



Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:12 pm
Posts: 526
Honestly... what really needs to happen... is the devs need to redo game play to make holding down two keys while standing on top of other players not the best way to way to gain exp.

_________________
<Kage_Jittai> ... are you saying I am elite
<thorbjorn> Yes.


Top

jaxad0127
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:38 pm

TMW Developer



Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:35 pm
Posts: 3166
Location: Internet
CapitanAwesome wrote:
Resting a hand on your keyboard shouldnt be considered botting, as the player is physically at the computer controlling the character.

Which is why we define AFK as not responding to GMs. If you don't chat, all we can assume is that you are AFK, and so are breaking the rules (if attacking, etc).

Leo6607 wrote:
Would it be possible to lose lvl's from EXP Loss, or just get down to 0% ..? (If it's put into the game, that is..) Btw, I like the idea of the question thing :p

We could do that, or where you can't loose levels, but need to regain all the exp you already did before you can get the next level.

_________________



Top

theauroraproject
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:20 pm

Peon


Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:36 pm
Posts: 14
A death penalty in a well polished, balanced game would be a good choice. But lets face it this is a test server. We are testing the well polished, balanced game.

If you do not have good and safe places for people to lvl up, and you impose a death penalty, you just made the game impossible.

There is no place safe place to lvl. There is no divisty in monster that would do that.

I personally do not see any reason why holding to keys is not a problem. Stack creates friendships and bonds.


I understand that we need to reach out side of the box, but right now the box is pretty good.

I say yes to a death penalty only when we have diversity to support it.


And if you answer the gm, you are not a bot. Right Captain? You answer the question, and the gm does go running to town telling everyone you almost got caught and he knows you are a bot? Right? innocent until guilty? Here to prove botting? Not accuse people of it? Right cappy? Right?



Top

Lord of the Flies
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:40 pm

Peon



Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm
Posts: 21
Don't take anything I say too personal Wayne, you know you are my buddy.

but.....

Preaching the moral implications of using a bot and using the statement, "Players who have an high level, work for hours, even days to reached their ranks" makes you a hypocrite. You were banned twice for afk healing aka botting. Not only were you banned but you had lots of people rally together to get you unbanned, which makes this post rather disappointing and somewhat an insult to the people who did speak up in your defence.

The fact of the matter is some people will always have advantages and disadvantages over others.

The person who can only play the game for an hour a day has a disadvantage over those who can play it for long periods of time. Should we all start complaining this is unfair? Should we start to protest that after an hour of game play everyone should be banned for 24hrs to keep things fair? Ofcourse not that is a load of bollocks.

What about the capslock bandits? Should we roast them aswell?

How about the people who use the 4114 patch? They have a huge advantage. Why not start complaining about that? Let me guess you would if you didn't probably use it yourself. I personally don't like typing out "#inma name" when they can just hit an auto-heal button. Maybe I should start running around calling them evil and explaining how morally wrong they are for using such a feature? Or maybe if I hate typing out "inma name" so much I could start using the patch myself.

The only validation your complaints might of had is a few weeks ago when the bot in question was private and only a select few had their grubby hands on it. However, the source has been publicly leaked for anyone to use or abuse. Any disadvantage is a self imposed one. In other words, I personally could give two craps about people whining about their own short comings in the game and how unfair it is that someone decides to take an advantage of an opportunity made available to everyone.

All I have left to say is if someone feels it is against their moral judgement to use a bot or any modification to the client for that matter than don't. But don't start some Christian-like crusade on the forum preaching the evils of botting and shouting "devil", "kill the witch!" Because for others taking out some of the boring repetitive tasks makes the game more fun for them and in the end that is what any game is about having fun and people have fun in different ways.


Don't be a killjoy.



Top

iamWayne
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:04 pm

Peon



Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 39
This took me sometime to acknowledge auto-heal was botting.

reference 1:
http://server.themanaworld.org/gm/gm.log.2009-10
[2009-10-06 20:27:06] 009-1.gat(51,38) Katze : @t the Confused Tree is now an officially authorised bot!

reference 2:
http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Friendly_Bots

->an attribute of the authorized bot, Confused Tree is heal when you say, "heal please" .

however to took some conviction that the auto-heal while afk is botting. Thats the reason for this post:
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... whane+code

Some discussions was taken by GM to conclude its illegal.
When i got whane unbanned, it was uncertain what to do, however for fairness, i request the reset.

I did not give the Auto-heal code to no one.

Lord of the Flies wrote:
You were banned twice for afk healing aka botting. Not only were you banned but you had lots of people rally together to get you unbanned, which makes this post rather disappointing and somewhat an insult to the people who did speak up in your defence.



Top

zefram
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:33 am

Peon


Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:13 am
Posts: 8
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.


zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.



Nicely put.



Top

muffel
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:20 pm

Peon


Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 6
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.


So you think for example it should also be allowed for GMs to abuse their power for their own (or friends), just because they have the "skill" to do it?



Top

Lord of the Flies
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:06 pm

Peon



Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm
Posts: 21
muffel wrote:
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.


So you think for example it should also be allowed for GMs to abuse their power for their own (or friends), just because they have the "skill" to do it?


That is a retard argument. You lose.



Top

Kage
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:46 pm

TMW Developer



Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:12 pm
Posts: 526
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.


I can understand the point of this argument, but there are some flaws. First of all people who have all day to play normally don't spend the entire time killing bats. This is a very grinding activity, and it is boring. So while they may play 8 hours a day, they won't spend the entire time grinding and killing monsters over and over. Secondly, if you spend the entire day working, you get paid, someone who is unemployed does not get this benefit. So not only do you get to play as much as another person, you also get the benefits of having a job. This effectively says I work for 8 hours AND play for 8 hours, while the other people are only able to do one or the other.

But assuming these arguments I presented you are flawed in some way, there are several reasons why botting is bad other then giving a unfair advantage.

The main reason I (and I think other devs) oppose it is because it devalues game play. The main point of playing MMORPGs is the interaction with other players. Bots are unable to participate in intelligent conversations.

Now lets imagine if botting was allowed, good chance a large percentage of the population would bot. The low percentage that doesn't, will become bored with the game because the only thing they would get to do is talk to bots. So thus they would leave. At this point all this leaves is the bots. So when a new player comes along and start trying to talk to people, he would never get a response, or at lest not a intelligent one. And thus he will either stop playing, or just create his own bot.

At this point the only thing people are doing is.... botting... which would devalue the game to the point where we might as well give infinite money and power to everyone. Since there would be no difference.

_________________
<Kage_Jittai> ... are you saying I am elite
<thorbjorn> Yes.


Top

hewhohasalongname
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:56 pm

Peon


Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:41 am
Posts: 13
Kage wrote:
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.


I can understand the point of this argument, but there are some flaws. First of all people who have all day to play normally don't spend the entire time killing bats. This is a very grinding activity, and it is boring. So while they may play 8 hours a day, they won't spend the entire time grinding and killing monsters over and over. Secondly, if you spend the entire day working, you get paid, someone who is unemployed does not get this benefit. So not only do you get to play as much as another person, you also get the benefits of having a job. This effectively says I work for 8 hours AND play for 8 hours, while the other people are only able to do one or the other.

But assuming these arguments I presented you are flawed in some way, there are several reasons why botting is bad other then giving a unfair advantage.

The main reason I (and I think other devs) oppose it is because it devalues game play. The main point of playing MMORPGs is the interaction with other players. Bots are unable to participate in intelligent conversations.

Now lets imagine if botting was allowed, good chance a large percentage of the population would bot. The low percentage that doesn't, will become bored with the game because the only thing they would get to do is talk to bots. So thus they would leave. At this point all this leaves is the bots. So when a new player comes along and start trying to talk to people, he would never get a response, or at lest not a intelligent one. And thus he will either stop playing, or just create his own bot.

At this point the only thing people are doing is.... botting... which would devalue the game to the point where we might as well give infinite money and power to everyone. Since there would be no difference.


Interesting opinion....
so, in this and that amount of years, when we finally make the impossible possible and make a machine that can actually interact with a player, it's that point where you would find that bots are alright just because they can talk back and "fool some or all people into thinking that they speak with a real life human for at least a couple of minutes"?

well I find that just wrong.
while those bots, as soon as they'll reach such a level, will be bound to be used as npcs in any decent game, botting should still not be allowed even at that point.
for many reasons: (answers below are a comment to the botter's opinion)
A. it's a shortcut, you don't put the efforts, it's not your skill nor talent, it's great that you could write such npc which nowadays is but a mere dream, but it's not great that instead of becoming a part of the program (the game) it starts benefiting you.
it's the bot's work, so if you did not play on that bot at all and did not take a thing from it nor ever use his account, this could be equal to calling the bot "npc" and that would be surpass "point A" (and will fail reason number 2 below), however if you simply harvest the fruits of the bot's labor, it's just as if you'd pay someone to play for you.
since you work, you could of course do that and it wouldn't be against the rules, but wouldn't it just be sad?
maybe the bot should also tell you how fun it was for it to play?

B. even with such highly advanced npcs having too many of them is nothing but damage.
assume a human player would have to struggle to kill a monster, not because the monster is hard to kill but because there are enough bots to reach all the monsters long before him due to far faster response.
you would then have to enlarge the amount of monsters in each map, this means more data transfer which either means a better server - more money or lag for the actual players, so you either hurt the developers or the players and that's just plain bad, it wouldn't of course happen if those were actual humans as they have quite a short attention span so if we assume N players exist then if they are all human and all are training in the same place, were they human the place would have about N/5~N/10 players at any given time in which they are logged (most players are just chatting, trading, traveling, and wasting time in general), however the bots would be there all the time, meaning 5-10 times more players and that's enough for a normal human to figure he just can't train there.

this really works much better for a "why bots shouldn't be allowed in far more populated mmos" rather than tmw

C. assume a player is decent.
he has a bot just in case and wish to spend his time to maximize profits.
obviously a bot would be a better level upper so it might be the best to use his actual online time for other things.
such as trading between players or chatting or whatever, not grinding, not actually playing a major part of the game.
for if that's the goal right now, it's much better to let the bot do it, and either watch it, bored, or well, not watch it
now if we assume person A had his bot up and running 23 hours and person B had it running 16 hours, because B has a lot of spare time and A doesn't.
then A would have:
1. a higher rank
2. obviously a lot more rares and money
and now A can travel to better locations and deal with end-game parts, because his rank allows it.
B is in a major disadvantage only capable of linking his time for trading the much less rares he has, trying to profit out of that just enough to match player A, and establish social links, but there it's only that effective in those 8 hours he spends.
so player B seems to be on the losing edge although he wasted more time actually playing the game
he then figures he should pump the amount of time the bot plays.
he will soon draw near the amount of time A is playing
meanwhile he would just go play in another game probably, and his advantage of not being occupied has been shattered to pieces.

now, you might find it reasonable however a game needs to compete with other games, if you are a "1-2 hours a day or you'll be losing from it" game, then you lose to other games which allow you to better use your time resource

so you could see that this will do nothing but reduce the amount of players, let alone reduce the amount of time actually played by rational players, resulting in the mmo becoming very bot-dominated.
and that's when we assumed that NOTHING damaged your social linking as the bots are perfectly capable of at )
(...)
Kage wrote:

Yes, how far you progress in the game depends on how much time you invest in it. As any other game for the most part. It just happens that this game is more then a game, its also a social network. So if your only working with the social network part of the game, and less with the gaming part of the game, you will not progress as far.

agreed but really..that wasn't at all the point of point C, the point of point C was to show that a human just can't compete with the bot and so will be forced to play the game a lesser amount of time, thus again, betraying the reason the game exists.

Kage wrote:


We don't actually have a need to compete with other games. This game is not for profit, and if people choose to play other games, well... the administration and devs don't really care that much. Once you knowledge this, then you realize that the more players a game has, well... the better the game must be (though this is not always the case). So developers do like to see growth and hate to see decline in user base, but we don't get paid based on it, so if it grows it just shows us we are doing a good job, and that is pretty much it.



obviously, but you do wish to have at least 1 player, so I would assume that if bots were forcing people to play less, you would care at one point or another, I mean it's one thing to really go head on with other games, it's another to lose players just because you allow this and that to happen
and since you want to be "doing a good job" as I suppose you do, you'd then be taking actions.
really I doubt anyone wants to trash his work just so a bundle of bits and bytes could roam around in his creation possibly emulating human chatter.

Kage wrote:
Like I said, if bots are able to think on a somewhat comparable level as humans, I personally would not have a issue with them playing. But if they are unwilling being forced to play for a human. That should be considered a crime.


again the free will? why would anyone program free will?!

Kage wrote:
I think you are referring to the game guild wars. While I see the advantage of providing players with bots to help them advance in the game. I also believe that when you have to depend on another human (or intelligent being), you form a bond with them, or you are pushed away from them. In other words, you develop friends, and foes. Which when you bring that into the mix, makes the game much more interesting.

While I have formed bonds with AIs/NPC before (such as Midna from LoZ:TP), the time it takes to create it in a free range game like TMW increase exponentially with the length of the bond. So until computers get fast enough, and someone develops a model for a program with free will (or at lest what we consider to be free will), I am not going to worry my self too much on the idea of bots in games.


perfect world clones came to mind there, didn't know guild wars now feature bots, horrible to hear really...
but yes I am completely against letting them roam around even when they learned to talk
and if anyone is going to give them free will , well he should really see what happens in just about every sci-fi movie that ever discussed robots that have that annoying free will and emotions function

let's sharpen this a bit more, here is a really dumb conversation:

Human: wanna kill some bats alice?
ALICE: I am not capable of killing anything.
Human: oh come on you newbie just click on it!
ALICE: Yippee! I haven't heard anything like that before: unknown person said I newbie just click on it.
Human: so are you going to try grinding some bats with me?
ALICE: Right on. That was my original intention.
Human: alrighty let's do it
ALICE: I am agreeable to that.
Human: so where are you from alice?
ALICE: Great. I am originally from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Now I live in Oakland, California. Where are you?
Human: the mana world, I am the confused tree!
ALICE: I hear you.
Human: say do you happen to be a bot?
ALICE:" do you happen to be a bot".
Human: don't you mock me alice
ALICE: What's my reason to mock you?

now as you can see , I am really forcing myself into making alice sound remotely reasonable but that's alright
now alice is obviously not going to mind if I said...
Human: alice you suck I am going to turn your power off now
ALICE: Right now? That's me. I categorize you as an "abusive client." Would you recommend this action to a friend?

or would she... darn you alice... darn you...
...I am the abusive client!?... I'll tell you what I am going to recommend...
Human: I recommend you bow down to me miss, I am a human damn it!
ALICE: I will take that under advisement.

look! she is being reasonable!

anyway, assume alice made sense more than she does now,(even though she already makes much more sense than a lot of kids I have tried talking to really) would you let alice kill your bats?



Top

Link , hero of time
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:12 pm

Novice



Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:05 pm
Posts: 110
Location: it varies from game to game , "The Legend of Zelda" but I often find myself to Hyrule
you all people wrote:
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.



Nicely put.



Top

muffel
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:20 pm

Peon


Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:37 pm
Posts: 6
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play more that 8 hours a day. He is uneployed so he use it as unfair advantage. Hell, he play all day long. Why? Because he can. I write myself a bot for same reason. Because I can. And because I simply cannot match players like he is. It is also unfair (by your measures).

I don't really think it is unfair. It is the GAME. In game everybody use his own skills to beat other players. Somebody have lots of times, somebody has talent, somebody is skilled in trade, etc.


So you think for example it should also be allowed for GMs to abuse their power for their own (or friends), just because they have the "skill" to do it?



Top

Lord of the Flies
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:06 pm

Peon



Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm
Posts: 8
muffel wrote:
zefram wrote:
Quote:
Botting in the game gives an unfair advantage towards fellow players.

I disagree completely. Here's why.

I am working man. I work 8 hours a day as a programmer. When I came home, I either fall dead to bed or relax behind computer surfing web or playing games like TMW. I can play TMW perhaps hour or two per day. Meanwhile, there are players (I don't want to tell the names but I know at least one player like that) that play


Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:05 pm
Posts: 18
Necromokron wrote:
Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.

Why don't GM's IP ban bots itstead of just account banning, which is near useless, unless the botters are using proxies, then we're screwed.


Because most people connect to the 'net through DHCP and their IP will change and someone else will get the IP address. So an innocent person will not be able to play anymore whereas the bot will.



Top

Lord of the Flies
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:17 am

Peon



Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm
Posts: 21
Necromokron wrote:
Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.


It was?

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9021

Next!



Top

jaxad0127
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 pm

TMW Developer



Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:35 pm
Posts: 3166
Location: Internet
Lord of the Flies wrote:
Necromokron wrote:
Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.


It was?

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9021

Next!

Botting as we define it (and we've carefully defined it) was never allowed.

_________________



Top

Lord of the Flies
Post subject: Re: Bots Warning,Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:19 pm

Peon



Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:48 pm
Posts: 21
jaxad0127 wrote:
Lord of the Flies wrote:
Necromokron wrote:
Modified clients were never against the rules, botting was.


It was?

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9021

Next!

Botting as we define it (and we've carefully defined it) was never allowed.


So non-afk botting is not actually botting? So let's give it a new term to avoid confusion.

lol
I can not even put all dialogue


you talk a lot

[Jaxad0127]

Botting as we define it (and we've carefully defined it) was never allowed.

So non-afk botting is not actually botting? So let's give it a new term to avoid confusion.

Automation. AFK automation is botting and is illegal.

[iamWayne]

deleted

[Jaxad0127]

The only way to check and be sure if a human is there is to try to talk to them. If they don't respond (like a human) with in the given time, they are flagged as AFK. That's just about the best possible system.