[Rule] Non-English Speakers

[swimmy]

Today, I want to discuss the rule "English in Public".
These days, I see some non-English speakers in the game world.
They speak another language very much, and when a GM comes and gives some warns, they'll stop.
For example, RooO.

[2010-05-04 18:13:02] 009-1.gat(49,33) Narus : @t RooO English in public

[2010-05-14 01:14:11] 009-1.gat(48,33) Narus : @t RooO English in public please

[2010-05-21 01:09:53] 009-1.gat(48,33) Tiana : @t RooO - please
[2010-05-21 01:12:24] 009-1.gat(48,33) Tiana : @t RooO - english and no caps - second warning now
[2010-05-21 01:14:01] 009-1.gat(48,33) Tiana : @t just go outside of town if you wish to shout
[2010-05-21 01:15:29] 009-1.gat(48,33) Tiana : @t RooO - last warning
[2010-05-21 01:15:51] 009-1.gat(48,33) Tiana : @t next one will be punished
[2010-05-21 01:19:11] 009-1.gat(48,33) Tiana : @t DemonWarrior - you are warned now too

After all, he didn't get banned even if he was warned so many times as I see the GM log.
I can see their feelings "I have only to stop before GM bans".
To avoid their speaking other languages, I suggest that we should have stricter penalty for this.
When GMs catch their speaking other languages, and if they did some times already, GM should ban a little time.

I'm fed up with seeing their talking other languages, I hope something will be done for this.

[Leela]

I have no problem with people speaking other languages because I just don't care what a somebody says in suaheli to his suaheli friend.

Why not stating that clearer:
First of all what is considered public? only towns? every place where many people are? Everything outside a building? All green areas?
Second under what circumstances is english important. State that clear: official things like asking for help or information, announcements, quests, events,... that is where the rule makes sense. So why is it important to make people shut up or leave who are talking to each other. What is the problem?
Also what about people who simply do not know english? Ban them just because of that? Try to find people who would act as translators if needed?

About inforcing the rule: Why so many warnings? Why not do it like this:
First warning
Second warning (in case the person didn't notice)
ban

and the warnings wouldn't be:
@User english in public or ban, first warning
@user english in public or ban, second warning
@user sorry i have to ban you because you didn't stop when i warned you
ban user

but like this
@user english in public - first warning
@user english in public - second warning
ban user

a good time for this rule enforcement would be 1 or 2 hours. Getting more if he doesn't stop it when he comes back....

cu ingame
Leela

[swimmy]

You're fed up? I'm fed up with people complaining about non-English speakers who can't even speak proper English themselves.

I would rather see their speaking English.
I'm not a native English speaker myself, so I'm always trying hard to communicate with other people. I do try hard, but why don't they?
When I spoke my language, I didn't speak in game (not only because of this rule, though). They should take care with this.

Also what about people who simply do not know english? Ban them just because of that? Try to find people who would act as translators if needed?

Through my experience, we will learn English if we use it. "Trying to speak" is important, doing nothing is not worthwhile.

but like this
@user english in public - first warning
@user english in public - second warning
ban user

a good time for this rule enforcement would be 1 or 2 hours. Getting more if he doesn't stop it when he comes back.

Totally agree.

[Platyna]

There should be max two warnings issued, next one should result a ban.

Regards.

[Dark_Mag]

Completely agree... But really... In my mind they should be banned after first warning...


Regards.

[Big Crunch]

The problem is that 'public' needs to be defined. The Hurns Square is obviously public, but i have no issue with players speaking their native language while fighting in the yard. Its my oplnion that the towns should be the only English only areas, but thats just my opinion.

[Rotonen]

The problem is that 'public' needs to be defined. The Hurns Square is obviously public, but i have no issue with players speaking their native language while fighting in the yard. Its my oplnion that the towns should be the only English only areas, but thats just my opinion.

Outside of a private chat. Further questions?

[Treggar]

Maybe you should warn them in their native tongue so they understand you. :p

[AnonDuck]

I don't think anyone minds a few words here and there, but it can quickly become a nuisance. I've seen plenty of public conversations disrupted by groups of players not speaking English.

To people that do this: It's very impolite and disruptive to walk into a room of people speaking one language and start loudly speaking in another. We have no idea what you're saying and this makes things very uncomfortable for many people. English is the official language of TMW, please use it.

What's worse is the players that ignore this rule unless they see a GM present, even if they are being politely asked by many people around them to stop. These players probably deserve to be lightly smitten by an invisible GM without warning for their repeat misconduct.

To all of you like swimmy who sometimes struggle to communicate: Thank you. We do appreciate it! I always am willing to help explain new words, and I particularly like learning a few words in your native language

[DarkWater]

Oh god, it is me, run!!!!

It has been brought up before, with spamming, my sister I think. You get two warnings then a ban. But I also think since this is only a temporary ban gm's should have some room to wiggle. Public is anywhere you are not alone, period. If you are fighting in a the graveyard with no one in sight, you are alone. If you are fighting with friends that do not care, you are still alone.

When someone new comes in to the group, you are now in public. The gm's should have the right to decide what breaks this rule. If you demand that only english except for in private chats, you ruin the whole fight in the group team thing. You drive good people away that have very poor english skills, and you create an environment in which people can abuse other people with poor english skills (hugs her favorite troll, lotf, I am talking about you).

You want to talk to your friends when you are fighting, you are horrible at english or/and you want to talk to more then 1 person at a time, you are screwed.

We can not have specific channels in this game, i.e. clan channels. Or the ability to have to parties share the same chat channel. We also are limited by the number of people in one party. Which means no way to avoid talking but in "in public".

Until you can have the ability to have a group of people speak in a private chat from different parties, you are going to have to go a little easy on the capital punishment. Having poor english skills is a not a crime. Disgarding a gm, twice in a roll, is.

This is like spamming, not a permanent ban and we have some great gm's that can think for themselves.

Now about tiana.

If you read the log, she gave two warnings. To be clear.

[Speiros01]

The only warning in the game for the non-english speaking players in their own language is when they first sign onto the game, or go and click on the policeman dood, whatever his name is.

Is it possible that maybe the warning given by the GM's is given in the language of the person speaking it. If they argue the point, then put them out for a period. It is no use giving an unrecognised signal. It means nothing to them, and they will scratch their heads.

It is true also that we obviously can't cater for over 3000 languages here on earth, but there are at least five we could cover. French, German, Polish, Portuguese and Spanish.

Then they get their warning crisp and clear, and it is in their language.

Another suggestion would be to recommend them a translator, such as Google Translator in the warnings if they don't abide.

Something like "One of the rules of this game are to speak in English in public places. Either take it to private chat, or use a translator such as Google Translator. If you do not comply, you will be banned for a period."

[swimmy]

To all of you like swimmy who sometimes struggle to communicate: Thank you. We do appreciate it! I always am willing to help explain new words, and I particularly like learning a few words in your native language

[Speiros01]

The problem is that 'public' needs to be defined. The Hurns Square is obviously public, but i have no issue with players speaking their native language while fighting in the yard. Its my oplnion that the towns should be the only English only areas, but thats just my opinion.

Outside of a private chat. Further questions?

So for clarification, private chat as in whisper and parties? Yes, I am over simplifying, but just trying to put it on an angle so private chat has some absolute values for those who have other ideas on what private chat is.

These other areas spoken of are still public places, yes? Whereas whispers and parties are examples of private chat?

I'm not trying to make a ruling here, just a clarification of what a ruling is in specifics.

[Tengu]

Damn you Rooo!

As brazilian, i have to ask apologies for my friend talk portuguese in Hurnscald.
I will tell a little secret: the Brazilians childrens don't know speak english very well (novelty...). The reason for they enter in TMW.org is because is the first server that appear in the portable TMW or the official game.

I have to admit that i speak portuguese in the game, but, not in cities or places that have many players (these are the rules for me). And if have a brazilian children that need help of some commands and don't know get out of the city for talk a little, i usually do this:

may i help you? = posso te ajudar?

this means, a little translation, for english and portuguese speakes. And if someone have doubts about my translation, just check in the google translator.

And about the ban, i agree too. one warn, two warn, and ban. But, check if the brazilian boy know what you are talking about.

[Platyna]

You can speak with each other in parties, whispers, this is what they are made for.
As I told several times, GMs are supposed to know common sense, and the "middle way", a GM that is too soft and cute is not a good material for GM, same as is not the one who applies the rules with nazi precision. GMs are aware about it.

Regards.