MONTARD was hacked by Diti

[WildX]

Today I was talking with MONTARD and:

[19.19] MONTARD: I said to it Jat Lee or Alel or any player to hack you
I think the correct english is I told him that Jat Lee or Alel hacked him
I think GMs can do anything (but idk), I just want to say that:
Jat Lee or Alel are NOT hackers
and Diti/Arditi IS an hacker.

WildX

[Leela]

I find this interesting:

19:18 WildX: Who are you?
19:18 MONTARD: I'm arditi
19:18 WildX: You "hacked" montard?
19:18 MONTARD: yeah

I find interesting not because it could be a proof.
I mean I noticed that MONTARD isn't online so much anymore and I noticed the character "MONTARD is hacked" but thought some troll is joking around.
But lately I noticed that "MONTARD is hacked" is MONTARD and the "normal "MONTARD" isn't acting like usual.

So clearly he is hacked.
BUT
It doesn't have to be arditi/diti. Might be someone who just said so to make it look like it was arditi.
OR
arditi/diti is really stupid enough to say that to someone and forgot that everyone is able to make screenshots.

An IP-check might help with that.

cu ingame
Leela

[Freeyorp101]

A basic IP check shows the character "MONTARD" on the same IP as the characters "Jat Lee" and "ardi". The logs show a more interesting history though, so I would want to talk to the people concerned before any further actions are taken.

I was able to talk to "MONTARD is Hacked" a few days ago, but the character left abruptly with a request to talk to me at a time I could not meet in my time zone; I did not even have time to say that I was not able to do so.

To all those involved, if you want to make sure your side of the story is heard, either PM me on the forums, or (preferably) contact me on IRC through PM.
Note that with both mediums I will be able to read what you have said even if I am not there right at that time (so there is no need to send a single message "Are you here?" or similar, wait two minutes, then log off without saying what you wanted to say, which has happened far too many times in the past.)


---Freeyorp

[DarkWater]

Freeyorp, hacking is not against the rules, because you can not prove the account was not handed over willing.

What are you going to do about it? Any involvement in by the group holding power can and will be used as a weapon later.

yplayer to xplayer, here is my user and password, feel free to play me.

yplayer 2 weeks later...

Xplayer hacked me!!!!!

GHP ok, slam punished for hacking!!!!

Xplayer, hehe that was good. Hey zplayer free account user and password.

x player, Zplayer hacked me!!!!!!

GHP ok, slam punished for hacking!!!!!

xplayer, this is more fun then playing the actual game.

You need to beable to prove that he is the hacker 100%.

[Wombat]

In log/login.txt the ip of logs are recorded. This may not justify a reason for punishment, but would allow the original player to prove they are the characters they say they are. Darkwater does have a point on punishment, just figured I'd add an fyi that may help players understand how the GHP can "give back" a character to its appropriate IP owner.

Another problem this presents is if someone gives or sells their character to another. If the GHP would like to enforce the ability to give back characters, their may have to be an announcement that transferring characters is illegal without informing the GHP of the switch first.

[natsuki3]

but "Diti or Arditi" and "MONTARD" can be the same person or not ?

[Armadeus]

This topic has been put in to further investigation by The Mana World police system.



- Damis

[Wombat]

but "Diti or Arditi" and "MONTARD" can be the same person or not ?

If they were the same person, I doubt they would claim they were hacked by the other. Also their IPs have been revealed as different, so they are more than likely different people. If they aren't different and they were just messing with people, they deserve whatever happens to them from the GHP.

[yourmistakes]

i'm of the opinion that hacking/phishing/TOSing should be permanently bannable offenses. that is of course provided that it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the account was in fact, hacked.

[Wombat]

Proof can only come from accountability. People can make a bunch of different evasive claims to save themselves from a ban, but if there is a process where players get a GM's approval to do a character sell or transfer to another, the scamming and hacking would be more easily noticed and punishable. Tracking IPs could more easily reduce who is who also, since no one could give a character without notifying a GM (or other GHP) and then claim a hacking afterwards. Just my thoughts on the matter. It requires a little work by the GM to inform administrators who have access to log/login.txt and a little work by admins to investigate the issue. This seems to be the easiest way to ensure a person gets their character returned, but also there could be an issue with dupes being tricked into a permaban, so it might also need to be a part of the rules. If this seems to be a hassle, I don't see anything changing around how this problem is enforced.

[Tiana]

As a GM I would be willing to facilitate such a thing that Wombat described. It could be as simple as making a log line in the GM logs that 'so-and-so' was giving 'xyz' the character "buddy". Then its at least noted someplace that is relatively easy to check.

Keep up the good brainstorming!

[DarkWater]

But once again, we can not prove anything. I have few dozen accounts and literally a dozen people can log into them. I willing gave the info out. I am not going to tell the gm's when I decide to trust someone, and yes there is a dozen or more people.

I will tell you the 100% fool proof way to prove it. First you need to make scamming and hacking 100% illegal. Then you need a clear and complete punishment system. Next, you need to allow the gm's to setup false accounts to trap the hackers and scamers. By allowing the gm's to go undercover, you can for sure nail the scammers. The gm simply uses the second account into getting scammed and hacked. Then uses the gm account to punish the scam-er and hacker. If the person you are scamming and hacking has a chance of being a gm, and therefor a chance of banning you, scamming and hacking would decrease by 100 fold. This places a lot more responsibility on the gm, but scamming and hacking is ruining the game.

Now I know a love of mine will say that scamming and hacking is part of the game. It is a learning experience that every player needs to learn from. And yes sweetie I know that, but this would just make the game less of a free for all.

Of course we need to trust the gm's which the voting system allows us to. And any punishment needs more then 2 steps. But we do currently have a set of gm's that have shown they can be fair. We also need to deal with this sooner or later.