fluid magic quest (idea)

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Leela
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fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Leela » Tue May 04, 2010 1:16 pm

Refilling the mana bar quickly is important for mages especially on raids, or for low levelled mages because their mana bar doesn't refill so fast.
Someone and Graphics Development (Crush?) told me, you already have some bottles that only need to be recolored for something like this.
I don't know how to script yet. I would like to so I would be happy to get a link or so for “how-to-script” or examples or anything that could help.

Two ways for refilling the mana bar about as quickly as inma refills the hp bar.
* an item for magic lvl 2
* a spell for magic lvl 3

item for lvl 2:
Wyara could make you a potion for that prupose:
Needed items: 10 cobalt herbs, 1 pearl, 5 empty bottles, 2 bottles of water, 2 concentration potion
Players with magic lvl 2 would have to bring Wyara the items from above and she would brew you 5.
Name: "Mana potion" already exist but I think “fluid magic” sounds pretty cool.
Wyara would have a new entry in her Dialogue “Brew fluid magic”
Dialog with Wyara:
→ Clicking “Brew fluid magic” without magic lvl 2
Wyara says: “So you would like to get some fluid magic from me. Let me take a look at your magical experience.”
Wyara closes her eyes, touches your forehead and mumbles an incantation
Wyara opens her eyes
“I am sorry but it seems you are not yet set to handle such critical substances like fluid magic.
Get a bit more experienced and I will see what I can do for you.”
→ Clicking “Brew fluid magic” with magic lvl 2 the first time
Wyara says: “So you would like to get some fluid magic from me. Let me take a look at your magical experience.”
Wyara closes her eyes, touches your forehead and mumbles an incantation
Wyara opens her eyes
“It seems you are experienced enough to deal with fluid magic by now.”
“Let me tell you about fluid magic. This liquid is deadly dangerous for those who are too weak. If your mind is not mature enough, if your body is not strong enough you will not be able to stand this fluid. But you are a strong person and you seem to be on the way to become a mighty magician...”
<Player clicks> “So, can you brew me some please?”
<Wyara says> Oh yes. Sorry I was just so excited that finally someone this experienced came to me. Mostly people just buy my cheap stuff, you know”
<Player clicks> “Uhm, yes... So what about the fluid? Would you brew it for me, please?”
<Wyara says> “Yes of course, please bring me the ingredients: 10 cobalt herbs, 1 pearl, 2 bottles of water, 2 concentration potion, and of course some empty bottles. I think 5 should be enough.
→ Clicking “Brew fluid magic” after this conversation
- When you have the ingredients this dialogue comes:
<Wyara says> Oh, you are back. Fine, fine you have everything.
Wyara gives the player 5 bottles of fluid magic.
- When you don't have the ingredients this dialogue comes:
<Wyara says> Oh, you are back, but it seems you forgot to bring me what I need for the brew. Let me tell you again: 10 cobalt herbs, 1 pearl, 2 bottles of water, 2 concentration potion, and of course some empty bottles. I think 5 should be enough.

(people with magic lvl 1 who use fluid magic would lose half HP and not gain MP at all)

Spell for magic lvl 3:
Once you reached lvl 3 (touching the mana seed when abizit tells you to) you would be able to get a spell from Elenora, that refills your mana bar.
Actually I am still thinking about a quest for that is needed or if you'd just get the spell. So Elonora would just tell you a little story and then give you the spell. She would also have an option at "what do you know about" that would be "what do you know about fluid magic?". So she would also give you a hint that it is not for the weak minded blabla... something like that... and tell you to ask Wyara for more information...
Anyway, I am still thinking about that, but I think a spell for lvl 3 would be cool...
so thoughts for the spell are soon coming



Another thing: While you refill your mana bar you'd get the same sprites like when refilling HP, just another color... maybe light orange or something like that.
As long as it's not about my eye...
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Leela
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Leela » Wed May 05, 2010 7:30 am

No feedback at all? That's sad...
As I said, I'd even try writing the script if I got a link to a "how to" or so...
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by yourmistakes » Wed May 05, 2010 9:24 am

i definitely think that a spell for that would be really bad, unless it had a loooong cool down time. mana potions are a really great idea, something that we mages have wanted for a while now. i disagree with the items needed for it, though, for 2 reasons. 1: magic is already expensive as hell. 2: cobalts are already expensive as hell, when you compare them to market value of the other herbs. TAW already has mana potions, i think, it wouldn't be too hard to get them here, though.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Leela » Wed May 05, 2010 9:47 am

well for free is not so great...
Also cobalt herbs are easy to find.
ok the pearl might be difficult.

What about this: 5 cobalt herbs, 3 empty bottles of water, 2 bottles of water, 2 concentration potion ?
i chose those items because:
cobalt - the mana bar is blue
empty bottles - the fluid magic has to be filled in somewhere
water - fluid
concentration potion - you need to concentrate for filling your mana

someone said that the mana potion gives 10 MP.
1. 10 MP for a mage with 99 int is not much
2. the "fluid magic" fills your mana bar as fast as beer fills the HP-bar. imo that is more worth then 10 MP and also of course has it's price. with the "ingredients" it is pretty cheap. Water is not expensive, 1 herb per bottle is not much either, only expensive thing is the concentration potion.
3. It is not like with the iron ore in the beginning. Droprate went down but people who needed it became more.
4. No dex at all needed to get that stuff, unlike for other stuff like, iron ore, roots, logs, etc
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by snoopy » Wed May 05, 2010 1:29 pm

I like very much this idea Leela.

But how looks the item for MP?
(°_°)
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Somebody » Wed May 05, 2010 3:11 pm

I was thinking that there could be a spell that uses all or a lot of your current mana but creates an item that allows you to refill your mana bar later. Allowing you to store your mana for later use.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Leela » Wed May 05, 2010 3:26 pm

@ snoopy: someone in graphic development (crush?) told me there are enough bottles for such purpose which only have to be recolored.

@somebody: your idea sounds good to me. But people who do not use magic could say, that it is unfair because the same should be possible with health then...
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Somebody » Wed May 05, 2010 4:21 pm

Well you can already eat food to replenish health and besides if you use all your health to make something to heal yourself you would die because you have no health left.
Also mana is more like a mages ammo so I don't think it should be compared to health.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Crush » Sun May 09, 2010 1:37 pm

When I said you should "think about the mechanics" I didn't meant that you should script a quest. I meant that you should think about the gameplay mechanics of the item itself.

What is the cost of getting this item? (you already have outlined an idea for this)
How much MP does it fill per second?
How long is the duration?

Then you have to think about:

How will this change the way the game is played?
How will it affect the game balance?
Will this make the game more interesting or less interesting in the end?

When you can persuade the eAthena devs that the overall effect would make the game better they might be more inclined to support you.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by enchilado » Sun May 09, 2010 1:42 pm

IMHO, no. Mages are already far too powerful without being able to recharge their MP instantly.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Somebody » Sun May 09, 2010 7:32 pm

poison_ivy wrote:IMHO, no. Mages are already far too powerful without being able to recharge their MP instantly.
It wouldn't make Mages any stronger.
The only time Mages need to recharge MP is when they are healing people. Attacking monsters and healing themselves almost never depletes MP.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Rotonen » Sun May 09, 2010 10:32 pm

Somebody wrote:The only time Mages need to recharge MP is when they are healing people. Attacking monsters and healing themselves almost never depletes MP.
So do indeed fix that first?
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by enchilado » Mon May 10, 2010 12:52 am

Remove a quarter of Flare Dart's power and half of Lightning's, make them cost 60 and 90 MP respectively to cast (and make Iron Ore->Powder Transmute give twice as many powders, but also require a component), and then think about items to recharge your MP faster.

People have been complaining about mages' power almost since magic was released, and I think it's about time to do something about that. Oh, sure, it gets talked about, but nothing ever actually gets done. I understand that most of the Devs are working on CR1 at the moment, and that's fine - it is the most important thing. But that doesn't mean bugs can't be fixed on the eAthena server.

I'm willing to sort out magic and balance it and so on, if the Devs don't mind or particularly want to do it themselves. It'd probably be a good idea to open-test it for a week or so as well, if I do do it. There are two, three or four other projects I need to finish first, though.

For now, I would recommend:

Life Magic: remove the amount of HP healed by the second tier healing spell, and give it a catalyst. Not only does it heal much more and much faster than the first, but is also free.
War Magic: remove a lot of the damage dealt by all spells, and make a chance to fail the spell, and possibly a catalyst each for Flare Dart and Lightning. Also drastically increase the MP cost.
Transmutation Magic: Create catalysts for some of the spells (the same one used for similar spells).
Nature Magic: This doesn't really do anything, so it's fine as-is.
Astral Magic: It's probably way too cheap to summon enough spiky mushrooms to bring down a Jack O. Not only that, but if you summon them and then get killed, they stay alive and keep killing, and the mobs won't attack them back. More different components would make it complex and expensive, and the summons should disappear on death of the caster if possible. And, to also make it better, a fourth type of summon which is stronger.

This is just off the top of my head, and I haven't really thought about it, but I hope you get the general idea. All schools of magic need to be less powerful, War and Astral possibly the most so since they're used for combat.

Then, of course, there's magic level three. Is anyone actively working on that?
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Somebody » Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 am

I don't believe the magic system needs to be "fixed". Archers can do just as much damage as Mages can do with lightning to monsters. The problem people have with magic (the PvP aspect) could be resolved by adding M.Defense stat to armor.
The spells could possibly require more MP, but not as much as you stated. Because that would make advancement in magic extremely hard for new players. But this is only level 2 magic and probably shouldn't require much MP anyway.
Summoned creatures often get killed by other players and are already very expensive to Mages for what little it does, its easier to just use lightning.
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Re: fluid magic quest (idea)

Post by Leela » Thu May 13, 2010 7:42 pm

Ok I just recently changed to mage, to try out.
I remember when iron ore where nearly impossible to get but the drop rate changed so that is ok now.

I am 99 on intelligence and mana refills pretty fast.
I was thinking about people lower levelled who can't afford to put 99 points on intelligence.
they would be empty of mana pretty fast from only using #chipchip and #manpahil and they don't refill that fast either.
So maybe it should actually be changed a bit like this (sorry i am not yet very much into it)

inma refills hp instantly on others BUT takes 25MP

I think ingrav's force is ok because compared to an archer it is like that. one hit about 600 - 700 plus waiting until you can hit again makes about three hits from an archer about 200-250.
But I think it could cost more. not only the casting of ingrav itself should cost MP but also every shot could be e.g. 15MP

So imagining a mage fighting and healing others and himself would really pull some MP away.

and now think only about a mage who is really levelling busy, casting much more then those three (inma, lum, ingrav). For example spawning mushrooms and letting it rain arrows also, using betsanc on himself and on other players...

In that case a faster mana refill would be needed. (have to dive into that a bit more)


About others complaining: People are always complaining about something they think is unfair. Before mages where there warriors where complaining about archers because they would hit so hard, and archers where complaining because it gets expensive to be an archer... I would not care tooooo much about complains on magic.

(to be continued when I am not sleepy anymore)
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