Warlord armor

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mocha
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Warlord armor

Post by mocha » 04 Sep 2010, 08:03

I'm trying to help a friend obtain their Warlord armor and we're making ingots with Jhedia in Tulimshar. The NPC asks for 5 Iron Ores and 1000GP per ingot and then requires 10 Coal for the forge. For six ingots it cost us 30 Iron Ore, 60 Coal, and 6000 GP (not including ferry travel) and hours of Moggun and Yellow Slime killing.

The Warlord Plate from Peter in Hurnscald requires 15 Ingots, 30 Coal, and 100,000 GP. That brings the total cost just for the Warlord Plate to: 180 Coal, 60 Iron Ore, and 115,000 GP.

Since it's impossible to know how many Ingots and Coal Nicholas requires for the helmet and shield without already possessing more than enough, could someone tell me how many we'll need for those pieces of armor as well? (My guess is that it's 600 Coal total to match what it takes for the mages to acquire their new armor)

Is this considered reasonable for a normal player who might spend a few hours (5-10) a week playing this game? At the rate it takes to acquire all of the Coal, Iron Ore, and 115k GP it could be months before a player even obtains the Warlord Plate let alone the helmet and Steel Shield. Keep in mind all of the time required to just get to this point and then the insane amount of time it takes to reach the high levels (which will take even longer without Warlord armor).

IMHO: If I were just starting this game and had to fight about 20 Mogguns per piece of Coal and each Moggun took 15 seconds to kill (I'm guessing level 40-50 is a good time to fight them) and I needed 180 Coal just for one piece of armor I'd probably quit the game after seeing nothing but the cave map and Mogguns for weeks on end. Instead of requiring 10 Coal per Ingot, maybe it could be changed to 2 Coal per Ingot or 10 Coal for each time you want to use Jhedia's services (10 Coal for as many Ingots as you can make)? Any other opinions on this?
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Reid
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Reid » 04 Sep 2010, 12:15

You dont need this item for your level, terranite equipement is for level 80 and warlord equipement is for lvl 60+

Also if you dont want to 'creat' one, you can buy one from an other player...
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Big Crunch » 04 Sep 2010, 14:09

The point of this change is to create a more definitive separation between 'levels' of armor. Before, an industrious level 25 could have the best armor in the game,now it makes the low and mid level armor worthwhile to buy.
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DarkWater
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by DarkWater » 04 Sep 2010, 17:39

mocha wrote:IMHO: If I were just starting this game and had to fight about 20 Mogguns per piece of Coal and each Moggun took 15 seconds to kill (I'm guessing level 40-50 is a good time to fight them) and I needed 180 Coal just for one piece of armor I'd probably quit the game after seeing nothing but the cave map and Mogguns for weeks on end. Instead of requiring 10 Coal per Ingot, maybe it could be changed to 2 Coal per Ingot or 10 Coal for each time you want to use Jhedia's services (10 Coal for as many Ingots as you can make)? Any other opinions on this?
You are a reasonable person, but lets face facts, the current development team leader, wombat, does not really care about people starting out in the game, he only cares about the rich staying rich and everyone else getting nowhere.

No about your question. If the lastest git is correct.
http://gitorious.org/tmw-eathena-data/m ... cholas.txt
Knight is 3 ingot 6ore 10k in money.
Crusade is 6 ingot 12 ore 10k in money.
Warlord is 9 ingot 18 ore 10k in money.


Personally it clear shows that wombat has never created or ran a rpg in this life and really have no clue on what he is doing. If i was you, I would quit, there are alot of other servers out there.
I am relentless, unpredictable, waiting for your last breath- Princess of Darkness
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by alastrim » 04 Sep 2010, 19:41

You are a reasonable person, but lets face facts, the current development team leader, wombat, does not really care about people starting out in the game, he only cares about the rich staying rich and everyone else getting nowhere.
That is a strange way to state your disagreement with the actual stage of development of TMW.

We all know that assigning stats to new weapons or deciding the difficulty of the quests is a hard job, and it is easy to make things unbalanced and/or difficult for the players. So, if you see a way to make things better, just make a patch showing your ideas.

It is not that hard and it is also a better way of expressing your opinions than just saying everything is doomed. I am sure not only Wombat will take it into account, but all the other players too. :wink:
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Acegi » 04 Sep 2010, 19:51

The reason as stated before is that the higher level armour is meant for higher level players. Older players already have these armour items anyway so these changes don't affect them. The only thing the content development team can do now is try and balance the game for new players. I'd also argue that newer players only find out about the change in difficulty of getting items if older players tell them or if they're not new players but mule accounts. Even if an older player tells a (real) newb player that it used be easier they would most likely dismiss it since there's nothing that can be done about it anyway.

Ftr, the introduction of more beginner quests (Tulimshar) shows the development team is interested in all players not just older players.

Back on topic, the armour change promotes use of more items rather than quite easily obtaining the best armour within a week. All rpgs should have items for gradual improvement otherwise the players might as well be given the best armour and weapons at the start and give up playing a moment later.

I do admit though quest development that target higher level players should be more difficult NOT more tedious. This will be down to the imagination of the content developers so best of luck to them.
"Every problem is an opportunity in disguise..." Inara, Firefly
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Wombat » 04 Sep 2010, 20:30

alastrim wrote:We all know that assigning stats to new weapons or deciding the difficulty of the quests is a hard job, and it is easy to make things unbalanced and/or difficult for the players. So, if you see a way to make things better, just make a patch showing your ideas.
The current balance has worked. From my observations, characters are getting the chain mail and light plate instead of the warlord right off the bat, which was the case. The warlord armor is the best defensive armor in the game and should be no easy task to get. Crafting is going to continue to increase in this game.

While I won't stop people from submitting patches, it would save time and effort to discuss the concept of changes before putting time into creating a patch which may get rejected. Right now I feel rather comfortable with the time it takes to get warlord armor. There are other quests for more middle range armors coming shortly, so the jump between a desert shirt and chain mail won't seem as deep a jump nor will the jump between the fancy hat and the winged helmet.

For helmets, also, the player market should be saturated with infantry helmets, which gives the second highest defense of helmets, matching the winged helmet (crusader and warlord giving the same highest defense). Typical player-merchant prices for infantry range between 3-20k. With changes in the rewards master, it should be easier for lower level people to collect and use their monster points to get an array of items to rapidly acquire the gold pieces to purchase off the player-market.

Shortly, we will have the fairy hat and forest armor ready for players to use. If you only play a few hours a week, getting a party together to defeat these quests will be a top priority. These quests are crafted for group play and depending on other players is a priority on the difficulty level, unless the player is already beyond level 40. This is an MMORPG and there will be more monsters and quests geared towards taking advantage of party creation and team play.

From a balance perspective, chain mail should be achievable around level 40-60 and the other two should be achievable before level 70. Further armors are in development, either in the quest scripting phase or in the art phase.

Hopefully a person that plays for such a short period of time (a few hours a week = around 3 hours every 7 days) doesn't expect the game to be simple, else all other players that play 10-20 hours or more a week would defeat the game quests with all current items in under 2 months. From what I can tell, people that play 40+ hours a week already finish around this speed and demand more content for them to conquer.

Those that have another conception of balance will be listened to, but I won't promise changes. We are working in a direction to increase the difficulty of the game, but we are also working in a direction to increase the number of quests offered, so a better quest flow at all levels can occur.

An example of changes coming soon is terranite armor. It had its bugs repaired and on the next content update I offer, it will also have magic defense, which will make it a preferred armor to go against monsters that have magical attacks and players that do the same in pvp zones. These changes occurred because of discussions with players on equipment and were expressed in a reasonable way. Brainstorms and presenting constructive feedback are great ways of showing where problem areas are and why these are problems and not features. Warlord armor's difficulty is a feature.
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by DarkWater » 05 Sep 2010, 18:31

alastrim wrote:That is a strange way to state your disagreement with the actual stage of development of TMW.
wombat wrote:Darkwater, you are no longer wanted for art work on these projects. I am relieving you of your art duties. If you want to continue independently, you can submit a patch to the git repo of your work. If you want to change how you approach people, perhaps we'll work with each other again in the future. I do not see that happening now.

Once we are done with our current priorities, either I or someone else will complete the player set, unless you beat us to it. Good luck on either path you take.
That is what you get if you try to help. When you get something almost done, they tell you they do not want you to help. What did I do? Just tell him that he need to calm down.

When someone spends their time doing what they where asked to do and wombat boots them for telling him to calm down, the project is doom.

That is how all help on this server has been met. Once you try to complete something, those in powers either refused to release it, or just yell at you until you quit. Do some reading in the forums.

Wombat does not understand game basics but is allowed to do that he wants because everyone else has quit or does not care.

If they do not care, then why should you or I?
I am relentless, unpredictable, waiting for your last breath- Princess of Darkness
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Lt. KLAG [24th.KDF]
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Lt. KLAG [24th.KDF] » 05 Sep 2010, 19:21

DarkWater wrote:If they do not care, then why should you or I?
This is clearly a rather widespread opinion, and already shared in this forum :
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Crush
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Crush » 05 Sep 2010, 20:33

Lt. KLAG [24th.KDF] wrote:
DarkWater wrote:If they do not care, then why should you or I?
This is clearly a rather widespread opinion, and already shared in this forum :
Widespread opinion? Most of the posts in that thread are from yourself.

Brice the Nice = Col. Kilgore = Ceiling Catz = Lt. Kang = Anti Rooster Front = Uber Kalimero = a ton of other accounts.
DarkWater wrote:That is what you get if you try to help. When you get something almost done, they tell you they do not want you to help. What did I do? Just tell him that he need to calm down.
Strangely there are tons of people who work together with Wombat perfectly. He is doing a great job at motivating and coordinating people. Thanks to him the TMW development team and contributors accomplished more in the last weeks than before him in the last year. In my opinion making Wombat the content coordinator was the best move the TMW developers did in the last years.

But that doesn't mean that he has to work with anyone. An efficient team requires compatible personalities. I admit that it wasn't his best move to dismiss you in public, but when he can't work with you for personal reasons he isn't obliged to do it.

tl;dr: No matter how much you hate Wombat, it doesn't change the fact that he is currently getting the job done better than anyone else, and he doesn't deserve flames for that.
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Wombat » 06 Sep 2010, 22:45

If Darkwater wants to return to efforts on what they are working on, I don't have a problem with that. I will let Crush, Rotonen and Irukard provide art feedback on the player set and take a hand's off approach. I'm also willing to commit such efforts to our git repo once it is complete. I'd like to encourage a positive and pro-collaboration approach to how work is done within the tA content team. If I misinterpreted Darkwater's comments and intentions, I apologize and hope we can have a better future working together if working together is desired by Darkwater. More can be gained if we want to have good faith with each other and I'll make deeper attempts at assuming good faith.
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by DarkWater » 08 Sep 2010, 03:23

Wombat wrote: More can be gained if we want to have good faith with each other and I'll make deeper attempts at assuming good faith.
I have no problem with you criticizing my work, I would prefer it. But please just the work.
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Arphetic » 10 Sep 2010, 03:15

The team would prolly make more progress in a day then in the last year with this forum offline...
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Calmwind » 06 Dec 2010, 09:13

The problem in the coal system is not only with warlord equipment, the problem is that it can't be hunted for by mid level players trying to get for example, basic chain mail or light plate... I believe the cost per ingot in coal should be 5 per ingot as it is for ore and I also believe yellow slimes should drop them, as they don't drop anything but iron ore as far as I can tell right now. As it stands now, warlord equipment is almost a necessity to kill mouguns, which defeats the purpose(for a warrior anyway).
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Re: Warlord armor

Post by Acegi » 06 Dec 2010, 15:37

Warriors are the tanks of the game. If you feel that you're not strong enough to fight a moggun then you should restat to put more points into vit. It may mean you'll have less points to put into agi/str to either kill quicker or have a stronger offensive but you can actually defeat most monsters without even having a high level at all. Also it is the nature of a game for players to try different methods. If the swarm effect of the mogguns is too dangerous, then try to single them out. Blindly complaining without even trying other things out is why so many complaints are easily dismissed.

Once you get warlord armour and steel shield warriors become virtually unkillable anyway. This is incredibly noticeable when an almost maxed level archer is killed by a lvl 70 warrior WITHOUT either characters changing stats specifically for pvp. In theory 30 levels worth of stats should mean something EVEN if their stats are not designed for pvp.

If you discount pvp then almost everything that can hurt a warrior with typical warrior stats and the full armour, will deal only 1 damage for a mid level warrior. Exceptions might be JackO or Fallen which are special cases. So it should be understandable how this armour shouldn't be easily acquirable.
"Every problem is an opportunity in disguise..." Inara, Firefly
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