Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
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Acegi
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Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Acegi » 26 Sep 2010, 01:23

http://piratepad.net/TMWCombatRebalance

This is a pad where ideas for changes in the items and monsters database will be made to try and rebalance the game. The aim here is to get some ideas on what should be modified and then changes will be made on a test server to see if it's an improvement. This also includes ideas for changes to the combat formula for rebalancing.

So please reply with your ideas and justifications for each one.
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yourmistakes
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by yourmistakes » 27 Sep 2010, 19:35

pvp kinda sucks there.
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Acegi
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Acegi » 28 Sep 2010, 23:44

How so? Not enough people on that server to test? I haven't tried it yet.

Edit: By "it" I mean trying to seriously pvp rather than going on the server itself. More testers and thoughts are very welcome!
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Necromonger » 29 Sep 2010, 15:42

I think, regeneration there must be improved.
having 5.5K hp is perfect, but waiting for 15 minutes to complete regeneration from 100 health, is boring.
And, instead of making old mobs harder to kill, better do the new ones, that are really harder.

such monsters as terranite, fallen, Jack'O, zombie are already at good level of difficulty on the usual server. They don't need any improving.

such mobs as slimes just can't do damage of 22 to me, they are too weak for this

There is still no mobs that have from 2 to 4 thousands hp

Even if I have to kill 5 skulls on usual server, I won't get damage of 100+ per hit.
Correct damage that mobs deliver to normal proportion
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Acegi
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Acegi » 29 Sep 2010, 17:47

I think I have to agree. Here are some numbers for HP regen.

lvl: 97, vit: 1 3404
Normal Server - 3HP/6s = 0.50HP/s
Normal Server - Max 525HP
Test Server - 18HP/6s = 3HP/s
Test Server - Max 3404HP

lvl: 97, vit: 50
Normal Server - 14HP/6s = 2.33HP/s
*Apologies, I forgot to look at the max HP and I don't want to waste another reset!
Test Server - 36HP/6s = 6HP/s
Test Server - Max 5056HP

lvl: 97, vit: 75
Normal Server - 20HP/6s = 3.33HP/s
Normal Server - Max 910Hp
Test Server - 45HP/6s = 7.5HP/s
Test Server - Max 5899HP


lvl: 97, vit: 99
Normal Server - 25HP/6s = 4.17HP/s
Normal Server - Max 1034HP
Test Server - 53HP/6s = 8.83HP/s
Test Server - Max 6708HP

Sitting down the delay between HP regen is 3s so HP regen is simply 2x faster.

Of course with the new combat formula this could be calculated rather than just observed.

With our much higher HP on the new server we just don't notice that regen is faster. I think it's just natural to want full/high health at all times which is understandable. If you were fighting in the same way as you do on the current server using the new combat formula, you would still need to heal/withdraw.

Saying this however it took 7mins 59s to get 1440Hp (standing) so 4mins of sitting to restore approximately 50% HP at lvl97. In most cases you can deliberately suicide and walk back to whatever location you were before within 4mins so this is something that might be worth considering.

On the plus side, the new formula promotes players to team together (healers, team-bait) if they wish to stay "healthy". Single player gameplay is better too if you put aside the idea that you "need" to stay in the green.
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Alons
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Alons » 30 Sep 2010, 18:21

From my point of view, the new system extremely unballances the game in favor of archers. They have more HP, the HP they receive when they are hit is not that different, and the damage they do is the same.

I tested to kill a fallen being a warrior lvl 99 with 99 vit, and it almost killed me. I think there are some things to adjust there, maybe increase a bit more the damage reduction (not as it is on main, but a middle term), because as I said, as it is now archers would own completely war zones like graveyard and also would rule on PvP.

The mage type gets to be more useful with heals (since they can get about 4k xp by a single heal). But healing is now completely necessary for a warrior to go on gy, that means that an archer would be able to fight alone but a warrior not.

So to sum up, i would say:

- Mages get a bonus (since they have more HP as well as archers and the heal xp is increased).
- Archers get a bigger bonus (since their big amount of HP makes them closer to something like a warrior-ranged).
- Warriors are literally buried (since their main interest was to take away the chances of being killed, which are now bigger than with any other type).

Thanks for reading. :)
And remember: you play a game to have fun!
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Big Crunch » 02 Oct 2010, 01:52

I would like to suggest free restating. Grinding for money for the sake of testing is silly
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by kinwa » 02 Oct 2010, 02:51

well then i say it here also:

with or without armor (i.e. the tank's essential) doesn't make much difference. perhaps stronger armor would do it, or lower hp or a bit of both things. (when archers need to wear more agi-armor and not the warrior's, they'd have still not such a great advantage over the other classes)
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Freeyorp101 » 02 Oct 2010, 10:38

Warriors will be underpowered until shield block procs are fully implemented.

Archers are meant to be more effective than they were before, since they were relatively underpowered or effective only in certain circumstances with restricted builds. Once mob stat reworks and shield block procs are complete, we'll need to review to make sure this isn't overcompensating (which is quite possible)

lay-on-hands is now very effective, and healing consumables will be underpowered until their values are updated to reflect the new max hp pools. Rate appears too high still. Also, lay-on-hands has been fixed to properly transfer life instead of duplicating it.

Mob swarms appear more effective than intended now. A few possible solutions present themselves here: spawns will need to be adjusted accordingly, or vit/agi reduction when being attacked by swarms need to be reduced. Alternative suggestions are also welcome. :)

Many status effects have also been reworked, mainly the barrier and protect spells. Poison needs to be altered.

Novice class is now no longer treated specially for hp restart recover amounts. Suggestions for how to rework hp recovery such that it is not boring to wait for recovery out of combat while not adversely affecting combat itself are welcome. :)


Stat reset and ferry prices have now all been set to 0. TMW staff should also have additional permissions on the testing server to spawn monsters/create items/warp players/set levels/reset stats to assist testing where needed. :wink:


PvE will likely be very broken over the next few days while all mobs are reset to follow new curves and changes are tested live.


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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by enchilado » 04 Oct 2010, 11:26

Freeyorp wrote:Suggestions for how to rework hp recovery such that it is not boring to wait for recovery out of combat while not adversely affecting combat itself are welcome.
Healing items?
Last edited by enchilado on 20 Oct 2010, 13:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Acegi
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Acegi » 20 Oct 2010, 12:59

http://piratepad.net/TMWCombatRebalance

Reminder, changes are now posted at this link. Please remember to comment here.
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Big Crunch » 01 Nov 2010, 03:15

bump to the top for those who havent seen this thread
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by Frost » 01 Nov 2010, 03:30

Some observations thus far:
level 87 tank gets crushed by any skull, any poltergeist, any skeleton, and most recently by a swarm of 7 Mogguns.
level 72 mage gets low XP and takes serious damage from healing, though attack spells seem okay. He dies awfully quickly.

Since playing as the TMW-style warrior is not much fun, and healing others with inma seems like a losing proposition, I assume that I'm missing something. Any tips for how to play using the new system?
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kinwa
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by kinwa » 01 Nov 2010, 03:35

lum works nicely, just it should get more xp - in the moment i almost get nothing for a huge amount of hp, so why wasting my lifestones on others?
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Re: Items, Monsters and Combat Rebalance

Post by chaslinux » 26 Jan 2011, 03:43

Freeyorp101 wrote:Warriors will be underpowered until shield block procs are fully implemented. Archers are meant to be more effective than they were before, since they were relatively underpowered
Not complaining, but as a warrior I often find myself frustrated because I'll be in the middle of fighting a mob and some lower level archer will come along and do a lot more damage to the mob.

I do see changes happening and it looks like there's some nice items in the queue. I'm hoping Napalm gets the skill quest(s) documented (perhaps under the a tree called skill quests). AFAIK archers again have a big advantage in the speed quest (or will there be a handicap?). Will there be a skill tree quest for Warriors?

I like the speed of the yetis, they're brutes!
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