[redacted] is causing massive lag in required areas.

[DarkWater]

The server clearly can't support 1 person having 50+ characters near a spawn point. When he is in town with 50+ character and you have to spawn, it just lags you out.

If you are going to allow this one person to massively kick people off the server at his own well, could you at least make everyone gm's so they can ban equally. I expect this from [redacted], this is the same behavior he has done in the past and promised never to do again. Why do we bother to believe him?

I just ask to play the game, I really don't care about what other people do. But to lag people out so they cant spawn is just childish and abusive.

I hate to tell you I told you so, but I did tell you he would start this behavior again.

[Post edited by Crush.
I removed the name of the person you accused of doing this from your post, because you didn't deliver any proof that this person is really responsible for the attack.]

[Matt]

;(

[yourmistakes]

Multiboxing isn't against the rules. If someone else has the ability to code a client that can let them use all of their characters, then shouldn't they be permitted to use said characters in battle? In fact . . I seem to remember you encouraging Multiboxing somewhere . . . where was tha- oh. Right. http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 9&start=30

So unless you want to cap this game at 100 characters. You need to fix you gameplay and stop blaming others because of your laziness. you should encourage multiboxing, because it gives you an idea of how to deal with larger groups.

If you are going to allow this one person to massively kick people off the server at his own well, could you at least make everyone gm's so they can ban equally.

What's stopping you from loading 50 clients? You could already do that, it's not against the rules. We're all equals, after all.
Lol . . . . and what is this little gem here?

I hate to tell you I told you so, but I did tell you he would start this behavior again.

Actually . . . he kind of said it himself: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 9&start=31

If the rule is changed, I will be the first.

So . . really you ain't tell us anything that wasn't already known. Good try DW.

[Big Crunch]

Mistakes insults are not needed.

Topic moved to appropriate forum for discussion.

BC

[Frost]

Multiboxing isn't against the rules....

The topic is about someone intentionally causing lag, not whether someone logs into the server more than once.
I've seen this lag too, and it's caused me to get disconnected on many occasions over the past several days

What's stopping you from loading 50 clients? You could already do that, it's not against the rules.

Kindly stick to the topic. If I load 50 clients, that will hardly reduce load on the server or bandwidth required for the rest of us trying to just enjoy an online game.
And before you get too comfortable as a rules lawyer, first consider how carefully you follow rules on the Internet.

I'm sad to see someone apparently attack the availability of the server just to make a point. Many people work hard to make this game better. If someone believes the best contribution they can make is to impair the functioning of the server for the rest of us, they should have left long ago.

[Crush]

Excessive creation of characters is in effect a denial of service attack on the server.

Unfortunately there is nothing I can do here except for making sure that this won't be that easy on Manaserv. I already wrote a bugtracker ticket for this, but this doesn't help you, of course http://bugs.manasource.org/view.php?id=290

But I am sure that Platyna will block the IP range of the attacker from her whole system as she usually does in case of DOS attacks (you did notify Platyna, didn't you??).


I also removed the name of the person accused of doing this from the first post, because I haven't seen any proof that this person is really responsible for the attack.

[natsuki3]

are u Slicer?

[DarkWater]

Excessive creation of characters is in effect a denial of service attack on the server.

I know at least 2 gms where on the server. He insulted me, only in the way he could, before logging out. I am sure that he would be man enough to step forward and take responsibility for it. I know he cant be that big of a coward.

[Flubbeh]

Yourmistakes:
Multiboxing isn't against the rules. If someone else has the ability to code a client that can let them use all of their characters, then shouldn't they be permitted to use said characters in battle?

It isn't against the rules?? maybe we should make a new rule, i mean look!!! Why ruin our fun because of 1 guy controling 50 people, my computer dosent have anything against these but we planned a raid in candor and most of my friends died in the first five minutes, lets not ruin our fun because of one retard.

Whatever happens, stay calm, stay flubby

[Reid]

People didn't liked when this rules was here, people don't like when rules is gone, erf...
You was all here to cry when this rules was made and now you are angry.
You are strange.

[DarkWater]

People didn't liked when this rules was here, people don't like when rules is gone, erf...
You was all here to cry when this rules was made and now you are angry.
You are strange.

Reid? Sweetie, please rereread what was said.

I had a problem when the rule banned families and friends from playing themanaword. Families and friends. You understand that sweetie. The rule made it so that only one person in my family could play the game at a time, I had a problem with that.

Since you can not prove it is not 4 people on the same ip and not one person using 4 clients, you can not ban it.

But we are NOT talking about that here, reid. We are talking about one person creating 50+ characters to lag people out of the game. You see the difference?

If he wants to create 50+ character and run them in a way that does not cause other players to be kicked off the server, I am all for it. But to make 50+ characters with the only purpose is to kick people, that are minding their own business and playing the game, is abusing the server, the developers, and players.

Once again, if he wanted to create 50+ characters, go the grave yard, and kill monsters, I am good with that, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INTERFERE, ie lag or crash people out of the game, then I would not object.

I would say that if he did such a thing, it would only be to exploit the system and punish normal players, which may need to be looked onto my the developers to prevent that behavoir.

Now I know what you are going to say. You know people that have huge stacks everywhere and make it impossible for you play in some areas. But once again, those stacks can be 4 individuals from the same house, each playing their own characters. If those 4 individuals became a problem, then you need to redesign the game play system to support them.

But we are not talking about 4 individuals in a stack in the graveyard, we are talking about one person, making good on his threat to disrupt this game again. He has done this before. I refused to stand by then, I will refused to stand by now.

I warned everyone that he would do this, I told them that it is a matter of time, before he is back spamming, causing people to be kicked off and crashing the server. I told you it would happen.

But to be clear, I have no problem with the multiboxing, the only reason he does it to kick people off the server and disrupt the game. When his goal is it to punish people that disagree with you and lagged innocent players off the server.

[Frost]

People didn't liked when this rules was here, people don't like when rules is gone, erf...
You was all here to cry when this rules was made and now you are angry.
You are strange.

You're conflating two independent issues.
People have been multiboxing (logging on more than once) for a heck of a long time. That doesn't cause lag. Heck, look at all the townsitters who have alts running around elsewhere in the game.

A huge increase in the number of logged on characters does increase server load. Having lots of characters on the same map appears able to cause lag. Each of these can happen for legitimate reasons.

Artificially causing a massive increase in number of logged on characters and then marching them around on the same map...yeah, that'll cause lag. When someone does that and claims they're trying to "make a point," that's just abusive.

Incidentally, Dont.Stab.the.Shrooms claimed to be Slicer/Mad Camel in public chat. We can debate whether he was truthful, but the people in this thread aren't just stitching him up.

[yourmistakes]

there are far better ways to DOS someone than creating a bunch of characters on an mmo. the lag created in such a way is no different from that of a drop party or spawn party, when you have lots of players assembling in one spot. are the gms dosing the server? what's the difference?

[Crush]

Since you can not prove it is not 4 people on the same ip and not one person using 4 clients, you can not ban it.

But we are NOT talking about that here, reid. We are talking about one person creating 50+ characters to lag people out of the game. You see the difference?
[various rephrases of this statement]

So where exactly would you suggest that we draw the line between allowed multiboxing and abusive multiboxing? Please keep in mind that the definition needs to be objective and enforceable. A fuzzy definition like "intentionally causing players to experience lag" (How can you prove that it is intentional? How do you define lag?) will just lead to inconsistent handling of cases and this will lead to accusations of GM abuse.

The reason why the multiboxing rule was removed was not because someone disagreed with it but solely because it was unenforceable the way it was defined.

[DarkWater]

Crush, I already stated many times how you can fix this problem. I will state them again.

1.) Set a maximum number per ip, lets say 10. After 10 characters from the same ip the server just stop letting them attack, talk, and whisper. I think there might be more then 10 players at one time, ie lan parties and slumber parties, but you can drop server message please contact the irc and make the developers on the irc so they can remove the ban, ie can be gm command.

2.) Limit the gold, exp, and items dropped per account. Pick a number, ie 5 character, per ip address. The only reason it is 5, is because I really dont know more then 1 party in the game that has more then 4 characters for 1 ip. 5 or more characters per ip address, the amount of gold, exp, and items dropped are set at a fix rate. After they hit that number, you warn them, and then you can auto ban them for 24 hours.

3.) Make sure that you are being fair. To be honest, at 10 am london time, there is usually less then 20 playing characters online. There is usually no one online that is near your level and wants to level with you. This is why people multibox, they want to play the game, but have no one to play with. So they make a buddy to help them out. In most cases, you never need more then 3 characters of the same level for what you are killing. So to be fair, they would be allowed to have a helper, I know most of the people have done this.

I am now going to give you a little story of one of the greatest player to ever play this game. Dayve.

Dayve does multibox, there is no secret there. But he gets a huge wrap for abusing the system, see slicers history on this server. I will tell you a few things about dayve. He multiboxes because to him, the game is leveling and making people happy. I have never seen him run more then 4 characters at a time, ever, even in candor. He only multiboxes when no one is around. If you show up with a character that is willing to play equally, he will drop a box, to fit you in. He always has, that is why we was called the sharing room. Dayve does not have massive amounts of money. What cash dayve's manages to get, my sister helps spend it. But dayve just wants to play the game. The current game requires more then 1 person in combat, magic is massively broken and therefor does not count. If there is no one that will play with him, dayve will just create his own group. If you want to play with dayve, and share, he will invite you in quicker then you can say "Nitemares, your hand is on my butt!!!!"

But when you see the massive 10+ stacks, that is almost always more then 5 people. Because after 6 players in the stack, you are actually hurting yourself, not helping. There is no place in this game where more then 3 character could not hold. So the between 3 and 6 per ip is your target for setting a fix limit. Most of the time when I do multibox, I use less then 3 characters, just enough to hold to fight. If a person wants to join me, I would happily drop the 3rd character. If two people wanted to help, I would drop 2 characters.

Now I have told you how you can fix your problem. You can set hard limits. But you need to understand that at 10 am server time, there is simply no one around that want to fight with you and if you want to level you need to invent a group, there is simply not enough players on the server to fix that.

What ever you do, understand that multiboxing is currently needed, to make sure people can play this game the way you made it. Understand that families have to play this game. Set the rule so it affect the small minority of people.