Monster Points

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natsuki3
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Monster Points

Post by natsuki3 » 05 Mar 2011, 15:31

I have an idea to do with monster points.

Exmaple : if someone get 1kk monster points can get a reward , a good reward like a rare or money or something like that.

1kk monster points > Snow Googles
5kk monster points > other hat
10kk monster points > a good rare
20kk monster points > xmas elf hat ,etc.
30kk monster points > Top hat

...
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Wombat » 05 Mar 2011, 16:10

Moved to feedback.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Chicka-Maria » 07 Mar 2011, 00:03

whats the point in having rares lol plus this would just cause more botting then usual for the server.

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Re: Monster Points

Post by Kage » 07 Mar 2011, 07:28

Candor gives you 100 points per fight... I don't know about the other boss that was added though. Personally I would like to avoid costs so high that you have to do something like "beat candor 5,000 times". Or some other insane thing.

Aiming the game towards non-grinding starts with making rewards easy. But we must limit how often or how many rewards they achieve.

What I would like to see is that a person that plays for a hour a day or so can achieve the same abilities and honors as someone that plays 10 hours a day.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by argul » 07 Mar 2011, 09:15

Mobpoints != Bosspoints

I disagree to the idea that players online only ten minutes a day should get the same archievements as players being online 10 hours a day.

The sense of a game is to waste time, not to get items for free.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Crush » 07 Mar 2011, 10:48

A lot of mmorpgs try to find a way to reduce the disadvantage of casual gamers compared to power gamers.

The usual attempts are:
a) offline progression: the character receives experience points or resources while not being played actively
b) fatigue system: the character receives fatigue points while being offline and loses them while being played. When the character has fatigue points, some rewards like exp and/or items are increased.

World of Warcraft, for example, tried a fatigue system, but they hadn't got the balls to design it in a way which makes it really matter for the average player.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by yourmistakes » 08 Mar 2011, 00:12

i say give all the casual players the same rewards as power players just to troll them. nothing like finding out wasted time really is wasted time.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Kage » 08 Mar 2011, 22:57

argul wrote:Mobpoints != Bosspoints

I disagree to the idea that players online only ten minutes a day should get the same archievements as players being online 10 hours a day.

The sense of a game is to waste time, not to get items for free.
I didn't say 10 minutes vs. 10 hours. I said 1 hour vs. 10 hours. However these numbers ARE not set in stone. Instead we should ask "What is a fair amount of time we want our players playing per day." I think 1 or 2 hours is a fair answer to this, though you can disagree with these figures.

Players should be required to put effort into the game, but not have to spend all their time on the game to keep up with others. I neither want to host a game or play a game that consumes a person's life. As I know how that feels.
Crush wrote:A lot of mmorpgs try to find a way to reduce the disadvantage of casual gamers compared to power gamers.

The usual attempts are:
a) offline progression: the character receives experience points or resources while not being played actively
b) fatigue system: the character receives fatigue points while being offline and loses them while being played. When the character has fatigue points, some rewards like exp and/or items are increased.
Yes, this is the type of thing I want to do. But my idea is making progression some what easier but limiting the amount of time that can be spend progressing. The perfect idea for this is powerful yet non-tradeable equipment that takes time to earn. Say it takes someone a week to craft a piece of equipment due to cooldowns and limitations on obtaining and creating material. Say they need 7 magical ore to create the sword, but only one ore can be obtained per 24 hours. Even if it takes 10 minutes to obtain the ore it still limits the amount of time that ore can be collected.

As far as players who have too much time to spend on the game, I would prefer they have other characters with a different specialization. So for example if we agree on a set time limit of play while progressing (say two hours/day), then someone that plays 10 hours a day should have 5 characters or so that they are progressing with.

This has advantages to power gamer too in that it allows them to become familiar with different playing styles that game offers. Instead of putting all their work and effort into one character.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Kage » 08 Mar 2011, 23:03

I just also wanted to add that I think this is likely the best defense we can possible have against botting. As MANY players have pointed out to me, the reason why botting is so bad in the game is because botting is rewarded.

By limiting progression, this makes botting much less rewarding. And even if people do bot it allows players who do not bot to keep up with them.

And this IS a major reason behind my motivations.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Okurwieniec !!! » 09 Mar 2011, 01:59

So if I understand well I had to make highest lvl possible before progression limit and will rule for a long time?
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Big Crunch » 09 Mar 2011, 02:09

as a 'power gamer' i am opposed to such measures. I fail to see why, A. there is a 'need' for people to keep up. (who are they keeping up with? Dewey got to lvl 99 first, we all have 'lost' so why bother 'keeping up'?) B. Why i should be punished for playing more than the next guy. I put in my time killing and killing just to have Joe Averageguy put in 25% of the time and get the same reward? Crap is what that is.

Edit* If you are saying that some items are to be crafted in the timed manner i'm ok with that. However in general, i'm opposed.

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Re: Monster Points

Post by Kage » 09 Mar 2011, 02:55

Big Crunch wrote:as a 'power gamer' i am opposed to such measures. I fail to see why, A. there is a 'need' for people to keep up. (who are they keeping up with? Dewey got to lvl 99 first, we all have 'lost' so why bother 'keeping up'?) B. Why i should be punished for playing more than the next guy. I put in my time killing and killing just to have Joe Averageguy put in 25% of the time and get the same reward? Crap is what that is.

Edit* If you are saying that some items are to be crafted in the timed manner i'm ok with that. However in general, i'm opposed.

BC
A. As "keeping" up with people, this bit might not apply to TMW as much as other games. But in most games low levels and high levels don't get to interact much, and there are even penalties for doing so. In my experience you make friends with people that are at a similar level (because you are on the same quests and same areas), however its very frustrating when you logout at night, then come back the next day and they have been grinding the hell out of the game and are now 20 levels higher then you. You no longer get to interact with this person in the game, possibly ever again. And it destroys a key social aspect of the game.

B. Question, do you think if you kill a mob 100,000 times, are you really better skilled then a person who kills it 100 times? What I want to avoid to repeative game play, if you can kill something 100 times, I am pretty sure you can kill it 100,000 times given enough time. I don't want to reward people for killing a mob 100,000 times over 100 times because there is no logical reason why person A is a better player then person B. They are equally skilled, just one has more free time then the other. Personally I stand from the standpoint where I don't WANT someone to spend 10 hours a day playing my game. They need to get out more. Socializing in game is ok, but actually farming herbs or something for 10 hours is not. Some argue that this is in core the nature of MMORPGs but I disagree. Skill should be stronger determiner one's progress, NOT amount played.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by dayve » 09 Mar 2011, 05:25

Kage wrote:Candor gives you 100 points per fight... I don't know about the other boss that was added though. Personally I would like to avoid costs so high that you have to do something like "beat candor 5,000 times". Or some other insane thing.

Aiming the game towards non-grinding starts with making rewards easy. But we must limit how often or how many rewards they achieve.

What I would like to see is that a person that plays for a hour a day or so can achieve the same abilities and honors as someone that plays 10 hours a day.
As the power user, then i play 10 for one hour. My chars would last a little longer.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Big Crunch » 09 Mar 2011, 05:33

Kage wrote:
Big Crunch wrote:as a 'power gamer' i am opposed to such measures. I fail to see why, A. there is a 'need' for people to keep up. (who are they keeping up with? Dewey got to lvl 99 first, we all have 'lost' so why bother 'keeping up'?) B. Why i should be punished for playing more than the next guy. I put in my time killing and killing just to have Joe Averageguy put in 25% of the time and get the same reward? Crap is what that is.

Edit* If you are saying that some items are to be crafted in the timed manner i'm ok with that. However in general, i'm opposed.

BC
A. As "keeping" up with people, this bit might not apply to TMW as much as other games. But in most games low levels and high levels don't get to interact much, and there are even penalties for doing so. In my experience you make friends with people that are at a similar level (because you are on the same quests and same areas), however its very frustrating when you logout at night, then come back the next day and they have been grinding the hell out of the game and are now 20 levels higher then you. You no longer get to interact with this person in the game, possibly ever again. And it destroys a key social aspect of the game.
I disagree. Personal examples: mrgrey, troll007, kandiman, rilke, prsm, jackdeth, billr, and the list goes on. All of them, with the exception of kandiman and rilke, were far ahead of me level wise at one point, and now i'm on equal footing or in mrgrey's case, far past. Kandiman and Rilke were over 20 levels below me when we first became friends.
Kage wrote:B. Question, do you think if you kill a mob 100,000 times, are you really better skilled then a person who kills it 100 times? What I want to avoid to repeative game play, if you can kill something 100 times, I am pretty sure you can kill it 100,000 times given enough time. I don't want to reward people for killing a mob 100,000 times over 100 times because there is no logical reason why person A is a better player then person B. They are equally skilled, just one has more free time then the other. Personally I stand from the standpoint where I don't WANT someone to spend 10 hours a day playing my game. They need to get out more. Socializing in game is ok, but actually farming herbs or something for 10 hours is not. Some argue that this is in core the nature of MMORPGs but I disagree. Skill should be stronger determiner one's progress, NOT amount played.
B1. to answer your question, no i'm not more skilled but my toon is. To refute your argument in a real life example, why do athletes practice? We all know they are better than us, isnt that good enough? Of course not, repetition matters.

B2. Why the hell do you care what people do with their time? As one of those that you might say something like that to, I reply sod off. Its my time to dole out as i wish. Furthermore, why DONT you want players on for longer periods? Its not like you have to ride a bike to power the server, it basically runs itself. If the devs wanted this game to be a glorified irc chat, why bother adding graphics in the first place? Its my understanding that the game is to be played by people for however long they want. If you want to limit online time, because of resources whatever, make a hard cutoff of X hours, minutes whatever and then block the ip for Y hours, minutes. Then you get to watch people leave and not come back. McDonalds doesnt limit the amount of times i can ride my fat butt through the drive through and buy a 20pc mcnugget, why should we?

Its my opinion that perhaps developers should focus on doing things to improve the graphics [referring to things that are ingame and need to be fixed because of perspective, shoddy quality, etc] adding content, making the client more streamlined and useable, broadening the user base, and increasing player retention rather than punish a handful of players because of a perceived inequity.

Regarding the Boss Points, i was under the impression that those were to be used on special 'Candor Only' items. I cant really see anyone grinding hours and hours at 20k a pop just so they can get a pile of points to get things that allow them to grind more at the same place just a touch better with no real goal. Candor is a fun game, but the exp in the graveyard for a warrior and an archer is much better and its free.

Your way punishes the players, like prsm, like me, like Sugar, Zeshadok, etc, who HELP players and bluntly put, that is bad.





edited for clarity of point
Last edited by Big Crunch on 10 Mar 2011, 17:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monster Points

Post by Kage » 09 Mar 2011, 08:47

Big Crunch wrote: I disagree. Personal examples: mrgrey, troll007, kandiman, rilke, prsm, jackdeth, billr, and the list goes on. All of them, with the exception of kandiman and rilke, were far ahead of me level wise at one point, and now i'm on equal footing or in mrgrey's case, far past. Kandiman and Rilke were over 20 levels below me when we first became friends.
As I said it might not apply to TMW as much as other games. But typically when I play a MMORPG I want to play with friends. And most games don't allow players at large level distances play to together.
Big Crunch wrote: B1. to answer your question, no i'm not more skilled but my toon is. To refute your argument in a real life example, why do athletes practice? We all know they are better than us, isnt that good enough? Of course not, repetition matters.
Fair enough, however if you ask a athlete if they could only practice a hour a day and get all the benefits they would go for it a heart beat. They practice so much out of necessity, not out of desire. I would think it would be the same for games, other then its NOT a necessity.

If you go that having to practice more is more 'realist'. I would reply that better game play > realist game play.
Big Crunch wrote: B2. Why the hell do you care what people do with their time? As one of those that you might say something like that to, I reply sod off. Its my time to dole out as i wish. Furthermore, why DONT you want players on for longer periods? Its not like you have to ride a bike to power the server, it basically runs itself. If the devs wanted this game to be a glorified irc chat, why bother adding graphics in the first place? Its my understanding that the game is to be played by people for however long they want. If you want to limit online time, because of resources whatever, make a hard cutoff of X hours, minutes whatever and then block the ip for Y hours, minutes. Then you get to watch people leave and not come back. McDonalds doesnt limit the amount of times i can ride my fat butt through the drive through and buy a 20pc mcnugget, why should we?
First of all, I don't mind if players play for a long time, the goal is so they DON'T HAVE TO play long periods of time. The second part is that slow progression will make the game more enjoyable.
Big Crunch wrote: Its my opinion that perhaps developers should focus on doing things to improve the graphics [referring to things that are ingame and need to be fixed because of perspective, shoddy quality, etc] adding content, making the client more streamlined and useable, broadening the user base, and increasing player retention rather than punish a handful of players because of a perceived inequity. If botting is the problem, then give us, the GM's, more/better tools to find them.
I am not punishing players. That is not my goal.

There is not a whole lot more tools GMs can be given. Further ideally there should be a GM for so many x number of players. Meaning as the game grows the number of GMs will need to grow linear with it. This is unsustainable method in the long run.
Big Crunch wrote: Regarding the Boss Points, i was under the impression that those were to be used on special 'Candor Only' items. I cant really see anyone grinding hours and hours at 20k a pop just so they can get a pile of points to get things that allow them to grind more at the same place just a touch better with no real goal. Candor is a fun game, but the exp in the graveyard for a warrior and an archer is much better and its free.

Your way punishes the players, like prsm, like me, like Sugar, Zeshadok, etc, who HELP players and bluntly put, that is bad.
I don't want players who join this game just to get a free handout. You enjoy things you earn your self more then that which is given to you. Not that a little help isn't bad, but players should have the feeling of completing and figuring out quests on their own without someone holding their hand.

BTW I talked to sugar earlier today and she enjoys looking forward to doing the black stinger quest everyday, and she enjoys that it saves her time.
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