Translation Option

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.
Forum rules
This forum is for feature requests, content changes additions, anything not a Bug in the software.
Please report all bugs on the Support Forums
Post Reply
User avatar
PsychoBob
Peon
Peon
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 Feb 2006, 07:36

Translation Option

Post by PsychoBob » 12 Feb 2006, 08:03

How about an option which allows the user to set two options: their language and if they wish the chat to be translated.

Translated chat would be slower, but could conceivably be rendered through someling like Babel Fish (http://babel.altavista.com/) by parsing the output page. In the game it could be diaplyed like:

Original Chat Message (Ursprüngliche Schwätzchen-Anzeige)

Where the portion in brackets is the translation. There are a lot of great translation pages, of course they aren't accurate, but it may be easier than trying to guess...

PB
Matt
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1748
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 11:47
Location: Germany->Bavaria

Post by Matt » 12 Feb 2006, 10:37

Well somebody here in this forum had the same idea and crush pointed out why thats bullshit.
User avatar
Pajarico
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 592
Joined: 28 Feb 2005, 20:29
Contact:

Re: Translation Option

Post by Pajarico » 12 Feb 2006, 16:33

PsychoBob wrote:How about an option which allows the user to set two options: their language and if they wish the chat to be translated.

Translated chat would be slower, but could conceivably be rendered through someling like Babel Fish (http://babel.altavista.com/) by parsing the output page. In the game it could be diaplyed like:

Original Chat Message (Ursprüngliche Schwätzchen-Anzeige)

Where the portion in brackets is the translation. There are a lot of great translation pages, of course they aren't accurate, but it may be easier than trying to guess...

PB
There are not a single system right now capable of doing understandable contextual translations, let alone simultaneously.
Lv.: Maggot
Please, read the FAQ before posting.
User avatar
Crush
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 8046
Joined: 25 Aug 2005, 17:08
Location: Germany

Post by Crush » 12 Feb 2006, 18:26

all the attempts to create an automatic translation program fail because one premise isn't met.

creating a useable translation requires understanding of the source text.

there isn't a computer program yet that can really understand human language. to understand a text it isn't sufficient to just look up the meaning of every single word in a dictionary. analysing the grammar is the next step but the information optained by this step is still far away from really understanding the intention of the sentence. to really understand what a sentence means its information has to be pictured in the mind. a task computers aren't cpable of, yet.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
User avatar
Modanung
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1719
Joined: 20 May 2005, 16:51
Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Modanung » 12 Feb 2006, 20:02

Plus in a game (or whilst whatever chatting session) people type using slang, 'hacker'-language, informal abreviations and they make typos and grammar errors.
This makes it ever harder to translate a chat conversation then an article by a professional reporter or whatever. And even the latter cannot be translated flawless by a machine until today.
If you're looking for 3D FOSS games be sure to check out LucKey Productions on itch.io
User avatar
PsychoBob
Peon
Peon
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 Feb 2006, 07:36

Post by PsychoBob » 14 Feb 2006, 02:51

creating a useable translation requires understanding of the source text.
I understand that, but even if the translation is not completely coherent the human mind can generally pick out what is pertinent, targeting on only the important words, such as 'leather shirt', 'trade', 'sell', 'free', 'help', etc. Whether the entire sentence is grasped or translated properly isn't the issue as much as if the key concepts were translated properly. As an example, using BabelFish at the URL I originally posted, saying 'Hey man! How are you doing? Can you help me get the leather shirt?' is translated to 'He Mann! Wie tun Sie? Können Sie mir helfen, das lederne Hemd zu erhalten?". Although it's definitely not perfection, there is enough information there to figure out what the original message meant to say.
There are not a single system right now capable of doing understandable contextual translations, let alone simultaneously.
For what it's worth, the server would not have to simultaneously translate, you do it client side by pushing the chat text to a web based translation engine that handles conversion between language a and language b - there are hundreds of them - you would not be able to handle all languages to all languages, but you could handle many such as Spanish to German, French to English, etc. As far as understandable, you give the brain too little credit. In your favor there is, of course, 'All your base are belong to us', but that is understandable, simply not grammatically correct.
Plus in a game (or whilst whatever chatting session) people type using slang, 'hacker'-language, informal abreviations and they make typos and grammar errors.
Modanung's argument is the one that I will concede to :oops: . Spelling, abbreviations, typos and slang would be the Achilles heal. Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't thought of that.

PB
User avatar
Platyna
Former Dictator
Former Dictator
Posts: 2213
Joined: 19 Nov 2005, 14:19
Location: Poland
Contact:

Post by Platyna » 14 Feb 2006, 03:10

Automatic translations are tricky. I know quite alot of phrases which literally means the same, in various languages. but are usually used in a different meaning, for example the same phrases in one language it can be coarse term for a sexual activity while in other they are used as an elegant and poetic expression how one is sure about their theory, so you should underestand now how an automatic translation can be ambiguous and may cause problems within the community.

Regards.
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
[The rest of this signature was censored by TMWC's "Freedom" and "Free speech".]
User avatar
Pajarico
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 592
Joined: 28 Feb 2005, 20:29
Contact:

Post by Pajarico » 14 Feb 2006, 15:36

For what it's worth, the server would not have to simultaneously translate
I didn't say so. No matter if it is client-side or server-side translation, you still need simultaneous traslation, or at least kinda fast. There are also the other problems pointed by my forum pals.
Is not to being a naysayer :D, is just that it can't be done, don't insist, seriously.
Lv.: Maggot
Please, read the FAQ before posting.
Post Reply