Family that plays Manaworld

[Tasisia]

Hi Devs, GMs and fellow game players

My main character's name is Tasisia. As Nard already knows, in the real world I am the mother of a family from Australia that plays the Mana World game. I started playing the game as a bit of a joke because I would come on the game in character and tell them dinner was ready. In our family there are 8 siblings altogether.

Today I was about to help one of my daughters with her character in the graveyard when "Black Andy" came up and said "2 characters, 1 IP address." I did NOT know that other players could read your IP address online. I did not even realise that anyone could read your IP address online. I talked it over with my daughter and then I realised something about an incident that happened a few weeks ago.

My character and one of my daughter's characters "Crisiya" were in the Terranite Cave killing slimes when GM Mr Grey started questioning my daughter to see if she was a bot or not. I realised something was wrong because in real life she screamed (Terranite caves can make you nervous). I asked what is wrong and she said Mr Grey appeared out of nowhere and she got a fright. That is okay Mr Grey is doing what a moderator does checking for bots, checking for cheats.

Another time Mr Grey warned 2 of my other children: I had been playing with them, went to cook dinner, put my character on the follow function, which I did not realise at that time was a banned action, (NOTE: it is part of Manaplus and Manaplus is now official). My character was only following - nothing else - so that I would still be in the same place as my children when I returned to the game. Mr Grey gave my children and my character a warning not to do that.

Now I know that many players have multiple characters and there is nothing wrong with that. OBVIOUSLY there is nothing wrong with a family that plays together.

SO PLEASE! Just because characters have the same IP address does not mean they are a bot. If we were bots then we wouldn't have been on the game for so many years and still have characters in their 60s, 70s and 80s. I have only just got one of my characters to level 90 in the last week or so.

This is not a complaint.

Crisiya is the character of my oldest daughter and she and her brother started playing this game years ago, GiGi is her twin sister (IRL) her character has also been in the game for a long time. Even my characters have been on the game for about 3 years.

If any Dev or GM wants more information then feel free to question me in the game. Like I tried to say already this is not a complaint, I just wanted to inform you all that we are a family. Nard is friends with 4 of us on Facebook he can see at least 4 of us are real people.

Mr Grey you have my full respect, definitely no complaints from me, I don't auto follow my children anymore.

Thanks
Tasisia

[Kurtz]

Consider the idea to send them away from home, so they can play from different ip.

[mistergrey]

Most players cannot read/see your IP address. Even GMs are limited in what we see, though we are given the tools to tell if multiple people are playing from one IP.

To be clear, I don't believe there is any rule against having multiple players playing from the same IP - it is true that enough couples and families do play TMW too. I only warned about the fact that you were following your child's character (This was decided before Manaplus was considered for the official client, as it made it very difficult to tell who in a stack of players were attacking or just following, as well as being an easy way to harass many players), and also that you would be more prone to being checked if you played together, because many have created numerous alternate characters/accounts and just levelled them together at the same time, often automating the process to make it easier.

This was obviously not to scare you into believing you or your family will be banned - only to say that multiple players from the same IP fighting together is often something a GM will check when we pass by. There are enough players who also play from one IP, who rarely get checked even when they play together - some have totally different fighting styles, some talk a lot between themselves while playing. Your family should have no problems, if you avoid automating (especially if playing together).

An important point to understand: Many, MANY players have used many alts to gain some kind of advantage, such as fast experience, easier farming of drops, etc. When those are botchecked, or found to be botting, their first response is usually something similar to "Oh but that's not me, that's my brother/sister/cousin who lives with me!". Ultimately, the disadvantage to this is that we cannot make exceptions for things we cannot prove, and not everybody can prove themselves in the same fashion for that to be a fair option. So if a GM catches someone in a family botting, and they fail the botcheck... if the rest of the family is not there, that is fine. But... if it is their second offense and they are caught... the normal action is to ban all of their accounts that play from the same IP. This is why I made a point to warn you about automating together, on top of mentioning the policy on auto-following.

I realize this probably does not seem very fair to those who do play the game with their families... but at the same time, there is only so far a game can go to verify that a person is who they say they are. As well, the GMs do not make the rules, we only enforce them to the best of our abilities.

I do wish you and your family the best of luck, and good times in the game .

[GiGi]

Thanks mum ^_^

Just an fyi in manaplus there is a setting that says "show player I.P. address in screen shot" so maybe this is how Black Andy saw our I.Ps? I'm not sure how it works.

@kurts Crisiya and I both live out of "home" but when we come back on weekends that's when we seem to get targeted! Crisiya stops playing for a little while every time she is suspected of botting. She doesnt chat much in game and probably seems a little automated sometimes, as a tank. She hates being thought of as cheating. All of us do. The other day when Black Andy came up and said that random comment she, again, left the game indefinitely because it makes her uncomfortable.

So far though, the botting check works because none of us have ever been banned. It's just a little scary to know you are being spied on. And I wish Crisiya would come back

[GiGi]

btw mum, want a cup of tea?

[DefinitelyNOTMrWho]

is selling children legal in australia?

[Nard]

Hi Devs, GMs and fellow game players

My main character's name is Tasisia. As Nard already knows, in the real world I am the mother of a family from Australia that plays the Mana World game.

I am glad to confirm

"Black Andy" came up and said "2 characters, 1 IP address." I did NOT know that other players could read your IP address online. I did not even realise that anyone could read your IP address online. I talked it over with my daughter and then I realised something about an incident that happened a few weeks ago...

"Black Andy" is not a GM as far as I know, so he has no reason to warn you. If he is a GM he did a mistake, forgotting he was playing with an alt. Anyway, Black Andy must have a bad sight, because if he played with you and your family, or simply looked, he should have seen that you and your family are very far from breaking rules and harm other players (a mistake is always possible as I did some myself).
Now, same IP is a clue to detect possible rule-breakers so you have to be aware that you can be controlled a bit more than other players when you are all at home. By the way, people who really harm other players and cheat on a regular basis use proxy servers to hide themselves.

About follow:

There is no rule forbidding following other players. There is a rule preventing to annoy players and to use automation to gain advantage over other players which is unfair. If a GM suspects botting, s/he is supposed to execute a standard botcheck on each char. [...]

Also note that Manaplus doesn't allow you to do anything but follow in that mode, especially it does not allow you to perform any kind of attack. If GM point of view of this rule is more restrictive than this, It would be nice to let us know it a bit better.

[Frost]

"Black Andy" is not a GM as far as I know, so he has no reason to warn you.

Black Andy was just confused. He is not even the alt of a GM. Also, a GM would jump to you on his/her GM level character, then warn you.
Players sometimes jump to conclusions. I've had people open their "bot-checker" window in manaplus, and threaten me with a ban, without understanding that the real situation is a bit more complex. (It's quite difficult to afk-bot if you stop to chat in public. Also, only a GM can ban.)

Also note that Manaplus doesn't allow you to do anything but follow in that mode, especially it does not allow you to perform any kind of attack. If GM point of view of this rule is more restrictive than this, It would be nice to let us know it a bit better.

Manaplus isn't the concern. At least one other client combines auto-follow with auto-attack. In the past, some people argued like lawyers that they were manually attacking during auto-follow and the GM could not "prove" otherwise. The simple solution was to ban auto-follow. Now, GMs have more flexibility to use common sense. This is why a group of possible-bots might be asked to move independently or sing a selection from South Pacific.

tl;dr: Welcome to the game. I wish other players would recruit family! Don't worry about getting in trouble; if there is any concern, a GM will talk with you before it becomes a problem. Have fun!

[bell chick]

tasias and gigi talk her into coming back. dont let silly players ruin her game play