Digging up dirty facts about server move and the takeover.

[Platyna]

I see that all uncomfty threads are being locked, and the people disagreeing with current "leadership" are being bashed and ridiculed...all that achieved in just 2 months. Good riddance! Keep going this way.

Regards.

[triforce_hyrule]

this topic will be locked or erased in 5... 4... 3... 2... BLOCKED

[Sanity]

Toasting in an epic bread.

[Kazenawa]

Wonder how long it'll stay open, seriously... Maybe we could make a poll for this ?

[Crush]

I think that everything which can be said about the server move has already been said a thousand times over and over again and everyone is sick of arguing about this topic.

I will, however, keep this thread open for now in case anyone has anything new to say just so nobody can claim I would suppress discussion about this topic, as ridiculous as this accusation might be (case in point: Platyna still isn't banned although giving me more than enough reasons to do so).

But when you keep posting off-topic nonsense in this thread, I will close it regardless.

[blackrazor]

@Crush,

The voting thread regarding the server move was a more useful thread than this one, and I have already private messaged you politely about unlocking it. As you can see, Platyna, and many others, are not going away, nor are we satisfied with the community split, takeover, especially the ninja way it was done. That topic was not necroed, it's just that out of politeness and common decency, we did not spam and bump it needlessly. But when the Nard incident occurred, there was again a reason to hold this new administration accountable for its heavy-handed and uneven handling of players and contributors (Nard is both, for example). That thread allows players to vote anonymously, and to have a say, without adding to the flames and drama. As such, it was a useful thread that allowed the community to have a voice on a still very relevant topic. So I ask you again to please unlock it. Thanks.

P.S. You mentioned that you didn't like the word "rule". Well, I'm sorry, but there is no kinder sanitized way to put it. Admins rule. Sometimes us prols like the ruling, sometimes not. It does not matter. Nard definitely got "ruled", and he acted no better or worse than others that were untouched. At least under Platyna, no one got banned or restricted for pushing their opinion, unless it broke other rules and norms, such as vile language, porn, absolutely excessive spam, cheating, scamming, etc.

For you to have put an "it's either me or Nard" ultimatum was really unfair and uncalled for. I'm sure there were many better diplomatic ways of handling that, including just giving time for everyone to cool down and letting Nard have his say. Even if I don't 100% agree with him, and I see the bigger picture of having to work within the copyleft framework of where the project already is currently, he still had a valid point to make, and should have been allowed to keep making it, unimpeded.

[tux9th]

I'm with Crush on this one.
What do you want to achieve? The current developers and admins do not want to work together with Platyna so they never will, even if you make a poll which btw was going the other way.

If you cannot imagine a game without Platyna so be it. If you like to play on a deserted server alone without any original content updates then do so but please leave us alone.

We respect your decision so please respect ours. I don't go onto your forums and nag about stuff.

[Crush]

Regarding the recent issue with Nard:

1. This was between me and Nard. As you surely remember, I was also forum moderator under Platyna, and I would have acted the same way back then. So when you want to blame someone, blame me, not the TMW Committee members who had nothing to do with it.

2. Nard and me eventually came to a mutual agreement. This issue is over for us. I don't see why anyone except me and Nard have any business in this affair, especially when you don't know anything about what happened behind the scenes (and no, we won't tell you, because private affairs do not need to be public).

[blackrazor]

The current developers and admins do not want to work together with Platyna so they never will

That's their choice. If they really felt that way, they should have gone off and made their own server, instead of taking Platyna's.

even if you make a poll which btw was going the other way.

After the Nard incident, there was a spike of votes in favor of Platyna, but then the thread was immediately locked. It's not binding in any case, but it remains a good way for the community to voice its opinion.

If you cannot imagine a game without Platyna so be it. If you like to play on a deserted server alone without any original content updates then do so but please leave us alone.

We respect your decision so please respect ours. I don't go onto your forums and nag about stuff.

When Platyna first took over, the server was deserted, without updates. It would be long dead and forgotten by now, if she had not intervened back then. So yeah, I cannot imagine a Mana World without Platyna, because without her, there would have been none to imagine.

These are my forums as much as they are yours, Tux. I've been with this game and these forums since 2007, and I never had any complaint with the way Platyna ran things. The vast majority of the content everyone currently enjoys on Mana was done with Platyna as admin. Has there been any substantial new original content added in the two+ months since she was ousted?

I don't agree with the server split, and the .net vs. .org thing. The community is too small to split it like that, and quite frankly, it's very kindergarten to exclude people just because you have trouble getting along with them, whether it is Platyna, Nard, or whomever the next victim will be.

@Crush

Sorry, but the Nard incident is everyone's business. It wasn't some private squabble between two members of the community. It was a forum admin exercising his admin powers in a way that rubbed a bunch of us the wrong way. The TMWC is partially to blame; power is too decentralized now and a dangerous precedent was set with the way Platyna was handled back in March. Yes Crush, you were a forum admin back in the days of Platyna, but I seriously doubt she would have let you handle Nard that way over what he did.

[o11c]

Has there been any substantial new original content added in the two+ months since she was ousted?

Yes, we have done a lot of things we never would have dreamed, before, and more are on the way.

[blackrazor]

Yes, we have done a lot of things we never would have dreamed, before, and more are on the way.

Cool, but I was referring to content additions, visible to the players, that were worked on after the takeover.

The last weekly summary from Jen was on Jan 26th, 2013, http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 9&start=87

So far, the only new original content (visible to players) is a Pirate's Quest that wushin has put up on the test server. Everything else (visible to players) is either recycled old events or excellent content that was already worked on prior to the takeover.

[Jaxad0127]

The current developers and admins do not want to work together with Platyna so they never will

That's their choice. If they really felt that way, they should have gone off and made their own server, instead of taking Platyna's.

Platyna was the host, not the owner. The server has always belonged to the project.

If you cannot imagine a game without Platyna so be it. If you like to play on a deserted server alone without any original content updates then do so but please leave us alone.

We respect your decision so please respect ours. I don't go onto your forums and nag about stuff.

When Platyna first took over, the server was deserted, without updates. It would be long dead and forgotten by now, if she had not intervened back then. So yeah, I cannot imagine a Mana World without Platyna, because without her, there would have been none to imagine.

These are my forums as much as they are yours, Tux. I've been with this game and these forums since 2007, and I never had any complaint with the way Platyna ran things. The vast majority of the content everyone currently enjoys on Mana was done with Platyna as admin. Has there been any substantial new original content added in the two+ months since she was ousted?

As someone who has worked on content for this project since 2007 (unlike you, I might add), I can say that Platyna has hindered a lot of work. For most of that time, Platyna was only the host, with no power in the project itself (except for when she broke that agreement and interfered), so your line about her running things is flatly wrong. As a former admin of the site and game, not to mention one of the people that worked on the server software (tmwAthena), I can say with confidence that Platinum was very unstable, unreliable, and all around strange. Code that worked fine on every other Linux or BSD machine we tried it on failed horrendously on Platinum. The disk drives and controller would fail all to frequently. The file systems were messed up. Resources for the game server were set with the assumption that only a few thousands of characters would be created (necessitating the frequent account purges).

Yes Crush, you were a forum admin back in the days of Platyna, but I seriously doubt she would have let you handle Nard that way over what he did.

Platyna has done far worse than Crush.

[blackrazor]

Platyna was the host, not the owner. The server has always belonged to the project.

Platyna disputes this, I believe. But most importantly, if the server belongs to the project, then who does the project belong to? You can say GPL licencees, but that is apart from the right to exile admins you no longer like, so the real question is who controls the project? You can say TMWC, but who decided that, before the TMWC was formed? It certainly wasn't the GHP, because Platyna ran that, and she certainly didn't agree with it.

Platyna has done far worse than Crush.

It's not a contest for who can do worse. Crush pushed Nard (with forum admin powers) in a way that would have not happened before. It's these exact kinds of uncivil undiplomatic not-in-the-best-interests-of-the-community events that keep reopening old wounds, so the best way for things to heal would be to stop doing those sorts of things. Bonus points if everyone can act in the community's best interests and reunite it, as well.

[Jaxad0127]

Crush pushed Nard (with forum admin powers) in a way that would have not happened before.

You must not have been paying too much attention before. Platyna did that a lot and didn't try to resolve the issue like Crush has with Nard. She didn't care who she insulted out of the project.

[GARRETTtheGREAT]

I don't have a problem with any of this. The GHP did not do a good job managing things in many cases. The TMWC has made plenty of mistakes as well. If you want to bicker and argue about who is comparably worse, have at it.

My problem is very basic and has been completely ignored up until now. I really hope that someone from the TMWC would acknowledge me at least.

The way I see it, the data on the Platinum server was destroyed exclusively to hurt Platyna.

Let me elaborate.

Platyna has never acted maliciously towards the population of the players. There are individual cases of hostility, but there has never been any proof that the data was at risk in Platyna's control. This suggests there was no reason to delete the copy of the server data on Platinum other than to ensure the players had no choice but to go to the new server and to ensure that Platyna was personally hurt by the move. There are many good pragmatic reasons why the game was moved to a new server, and I get that. But, I have not seen one single mention of why this unnecessary additional step was taken, which leads me to believe it was in bad faith, that no one is willing to admit it was done for this reason, and that ignoring the question is a way of saving face or dealing with a guilty conscience.

If this is true, that means that I was forced vicariously through the save data I created to attack a person that I had no personal quarrel with, and this is very unsettling to me.

Normal F/OSS projects end up forking when a large enough rift opens between individuals involved (TMW itself is a fork, and there are many forks of TMW already), but this option was never presented. I feel like this was a slash and burn operation to satisfy a few individuals' lusts for revenge.

A lust for revenge is human nature when something you love has been percevably hurt, but I never did anything wrong to anyone on the TMWC, I don't think I deserved to be treated as such, and I don't think that my fellow players should have been degraded thusly either.