GuildBot

[shacknetisp]

(Apologies if this is the wrong sub forum.)
I am currently working on a The Mana World based game, and was wondering if I could have a copy of / information on the Guild Bot.

Thanks!

[yaypunkrock]

The mess of code that is guildbot is closed source, please implement a non-hack

[shacknetisp]

Too bad... Thanks anyway

[o11c]

We *would* like to make guild and ManaMarket public, but given how terrible their code is, we're worried about the possibility that they can be exploited, and there is nobody to maintain them if there *are* any problems.

Killing guildbot in favor of server code was on my TODO list for October, but ...

[Hello=)]

Killing guildbot in favor of server code was on my TODO list for October, but ...

...but it happens. And o11c is not the very first human who falls to this pit of software development. When you forewarn o11c this road could lead to bad results, he ignores you or even thinks you're some arrogant and hostile nut. But o11c is not the very first human who removed all features from code with mind to re-make it "better", but "sometimes later". Then it often happens these plans never implemented, unfortunately. The result? Old code trashed. No "better" replacement provided. Doh. Human beings could be so damn predictable if you know how it works. Sometimes it feels like curse.

If someone is not aware of, "old" eAthena (that one before o11c changed a lot of code) actually had guilds support in server code (protocol level, without dumb bots!) and many other features/commands which were later trashed by o11c. "Because they had ugly code" (or bugs). While it could be somewhat true, the problem here is that I seriously doubt o11c would provide sane replacement for things he trashed in anyhow reasonable timeframe (if at all). And it's not like if I think "no code" is better than "bad code".

Then, to make things more interesting, o11c directly stated several times he does not cares about needs of other projects. "Because everyone takes code away but never contributes back". While it's not so untrue, what really matters is that you can expect "uncooperative upstream" problem: server software will be changed in ways o11c thinks TMW needs it. Your project problems are likely to be ignored because of mentioned views of upstream's developer. Changes to future versions will land without considering your project at all, so after getting "updated" and "fixed" version you can find your project in the middle of nowhere, and then nobody gives a [beep] to your [censored] problems.

So in my personal opinion, TMWA as it exists right now isn't the best server software to use it as base for some new RPG project. It both lacks nearly all features players would expect from modern RPG and then there is rather uncooperative upstream. To make things more funny, old server versions used just plain C, which is fairly simplistic (but somewhat crappy for sure). O11c uses some far more complicated and advanced C++, which seriously raises bar for everyone who about to try to mess with server code. So unless you're hardcore C++ guru who is ready to deal with uncooperative upstream and unscrew things yourself "just in case" and write half of missing features, it does not sounds like a good plan for me.

P.S.: This is my private opinion. And I do not like to tell it this way. However, that's how current state of things appears to me, unfortunately.

[Nard]

We *would* like to make guild and ManaMarket public, but given how terrible their code is, we're worried about the possibility that they can be exploited, and there is nobody to maintain them if there *are* any problems.

Killing guildbot in favor of server code was on my TODO list for October, but ...

According to general opinion, Athena code is terrible too, and it is public. This is called "open source". btw, the magic.conf real code (with actual spell names) should be public too.