Get rid of all the rules!

[Relm]

Since GMs regularly use vague threats for social policing with no regard for whether rules have actually been violated, shouldn't we just get rid of them entirely? What's the point reading and memorizng and checking with a list of vague rules when you can just realize they'll do whatever the heck they want anyway? It's not enforcement of the rules, it's really just social policing with rules as a cover.

Edit: Removed joke poll due to seriousness of replies

[o11c]

Sorry, but I am immediately suspicious a "good idea" from someone who thought that overthrowing *God* was a good idea.

[Shainen]

*Request admin to remove the voting option in this thread as an opposing choice has not been made available*

Trying to remember any irl rpg that had a GM/DM which followed exactly the same rules of any previous GM/DM................hmmmm NO, can't say that I can recollect such an improbable scenario. There's a reason the GMs are nominated and then voted on by the players. I don't understand how you can attempt to seperate "enforcing rules" from "social policing", one cannot be without the other. Any set of rules require judgement by the enforcer which may have a component of subjective decision making, however most are objective which is why the GMs keep logs and screen shots for validation.

[Avenn]

Just ban him. We need rules to break them ! Life without rules will be boring, no pointless and unfair debates with GM's, no secret plans "how to.." (scam/bot/insult). Lets be reasonable WE NEED RULES !

edit: typos

[Cassy]

Lets be reasonable WE NEED RULES !

Avenn, are you.... okay?

[Relm]

Shainen don't worry the poll wasn't meant to be taken seriously =P

I don't really agree with the sentiment I had when I created this thread. I felt that the source of GMs' admonition was in truth their morality from their culture rather than any explicitly agreed-upon rules and thus it would be more honest to abandon explicit ingame rules in word to correspond to our actions, but now I just don't care. Please, by all means, enjoy your white lies while denying their existence just as all humans do.

[Cassy]

@Lucifer: If you don't agree with a GM's decision, try to talk to another one.
If that doesn't help, open a thread here in player talk, describe the scene and let's talk about it.

But note: GMs aren't robots blindly following the rules, they have a head filled with a brain they use, which is a very good thing.
From what I've seen disagreements mostly happen when it's about a GM's decision to include an issue to the "don't abuse other players" rule.
Like I said: open a thread here in player talk, describe the scene and let's talk about it.

Personally I am surprised that the GMs here still get questioned.
We have awesome GMs, not comparable to so many other horrible moderated sites.
Also looking in the archives of this forum it seems there once was a totally different time...

[AnonDuck]

I felt that the source of GMs' admonition was in truth their morality from their culture rather than any explicitly agreed-upon rules and thus it would be more honest to abandon explicit ingame rules in word to correspond to our actions, but now I just don't care.

To a point you are correct. When there is a problem without an established procedure they have to make a judgement call. Since they've been voted in by the community and the admins one would hope they're pretty good at this. If there are legitimate grievances we're certainly willing to listen to them. The GM logs are also public - for a reason.

If there's an established procedure for something they follow it. Most (all?) of the in-game rules have established procedures as far as I'm aware.

[Relm]

From what I've seen disagreements mostly happen when it's about a GM's decision to include an issue to the "don't abuse other players" rule.

Well, I think that's an excessively broad rule, to the extent that it almost becomes meaningless. From the duckduckgo search define abuse:
" a•buse (ə-byo͞ozˈ)
►

v. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
v. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
v. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest."

Okay, so let's ask Villain: was I using the noob improperly when I helped him to find the mana seed and was nice to him? An absurd example, certainly, but the point is that literally any interaction with other players that they simply dislike, they can view as abuse and punish. A more reasonable example is the use of expletives. From a parent's perspective my use of them may be considered abuse, but from my perspective censorship is in the grand scheme of things a great evil and various GMs' attempts to restrict usage of arbitrary words and concepts even when they are used harmlessly and nonviolently is a form of abuse.

[Cassy]

That's why I mentioned that GMs have brains and MadCamel pointing at that they were voted by the community.
They are trusted to handle such issues by both the players and the TMWC.

Talk to them or to us right here if there's something specific you don't understand

[Relm]

Sure, I trust them, they're good people, I would vote for most of them again, that's all good and fine. I just don't think it's good for anyone, not even myself, to go around telling people how they should be interacting with other people casually ingame beyond dealing with unethical behavior, cheating, that sort of thing. I get threatening whispers from GMs regularly about my behavior and it's fairly clear they would like me to act like a sexually repressed white anglo protestant who doesn't give a care about the rest of the world nor question anything. This can become like land of fire server where taking off clothes in and of itself results in a ban - if and only if you do it in front of the wrong GM.

[Cassy]

That's some more details but it seems it's still not the full story and well... I believe you have your reasons not mentioning what *exactly* happened

[veryape]

Sure, I trust them, they're good people, I would vote for most of them again, that's all good and fine. I just don't think it's good for anyone, not even myself, to go around telling people how they should be interacting with other people casually ingame beyond dealing with unethical behavior, cheating, that sort of thing. I get threatening whispers from GMs regularly about my behavior and it's fairly clear they would like me to act like a sexually repressed white anglo protestant who doesn't give a care about the rest of the world nor question anything. This can become like land of fire server where taking off clothes in and of itself results in a ban - if and only if you do it in front of the wrong GM.

I feel that I might be in your line of fire. I just want to say that from my perspective it is not threats. I tried to talk about you with what I see as somewhat problematic language. One profanity isn't a problem in my book, but there is a blurry line when I think it is appropriate to talk about what i feel about it and try to resolve the problem. My first idea of solving such problems are not to use excessive force but rather to talk about it.

I hope you didn't see me whispering you and discussing the matter as some kind of covered threat, that was not what i had in mind at all. No I don't hold grudges and I am not keen on kicking or banning you (or anyone else).

If you think I overstepped my authority please tell me and post the chat log in here and i will try and resolve any issues out in public so anyone can judge me for themselves. If what I did is considered as wrong we either will have to rethink how we interpret our roles as gms.

[prsm]

Sure, I trust them, they're good people, I would vote for most of them again, that's all good and fine. I just don't think it's good for anyone, not even myself, to go around telling people how they should be interacting with other people casually ingame beyond dealing with unethical behavior, cheating, that sort of thing. I get threatening whispers from GMs regularly about my behavior and it's fairly clear they would like me to act like a sexually repressed white anglo protestant who doesn't give a care about the rest of the world nor question anything. This can become like land of fire server where taking off clothes in and of itself results in a ban - if and only if you do it in front of the wrong GM.

I keep a log of all conversations, so I can back everything up i say.

I bot checked you in the game, once, you didn't immediately answer so i started the countdown. You got offended and made a post. Gm's can do bot checks, the fact that you moved away from me while being botchecked in the game is on you. Nevertheless, you didnt like the rule and made a post.

I asked you to stop swearing in the game (many times). You got offended and made a post, including saying i threatened a ban, which i never did. Nevertheless, you didn't like being asked to stop swearing,so you made a post

You made sexual innuendos in the game, I asked you to stop, I didn't threaten you with a ban, you got offended and made a post.

Go back and check all your posts, and read what people wrote, not you or I, everyone else. They back the gm.

You are the only one that talks and acts the way that you do. Every time you start off on your escapades I get whispers from players saying "that can't be within the rules". Having said that, i have asked you to stop, I have never once threatened you with a ban.

You would not talk the way you do with a doctor, dentist, grandparent, teacher, and i am guessing "while waiting in line". Your asking for freedoms that you don't afford others..................... and that is why your actions are wrong.

Prsm

[Relm]

It's not a roleplaying game if you are required to act the same as you do in real life in public.

Also, whether a statement is a threat is always a matter of interpretation. Perhaps I misinterpreted. I think GMs kind of delight in not having to say whether something is an official warning or not. They can decide long after they say it.