Only kick for botting?

A place for The Mana World players to discuss game-related topics outside the scope of development including guilds, player interactions, game meta and more.


Terra
Newly Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2015, 16:40

Only kick for botting?

Post by Terra »

As I know in GM rules there is ban for botting, not kick:

https://www.themanaworld.org/index.php/ ... in_game.29:
No bots (and by botting I also mean ANY AFK activity in game)

Of course the punishment for this is well known, automatic block with a reset on the first offense and a block with no reset on the second.
But if you look to GM log, you can see:
[2015-06-02 01:40:00] 010-1(79,37) wushin(2221039) : @kick MAF-Ninjaz

There was botting, I reported it. I hate bots. But instead of block this bot just kicked out. This is against game rules. Please, follow rules and make "block with a reset on the first offense", as said in rules.
User avatar
soseki
Novice
Novice
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Apr 2015, 12:17
Location: Rock Plateau

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by soseki »

Wushin is not a GM thats why he kicked him, to stop him.
Botters tend to bot again, maybe next time he or she wont be that lucky :lol:
User avatar
wushin
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1759
Joined: 18 Dec 2012, 05:56
Location: RiverBest, Brew City, Merica
Contact:

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by wushin »

Aye, I can kick them but since I'm not a GM I've no jurisdiction to ban. But when I kicked them they didn't come back online, so if I was MAF-Ninja, I'd be really careful. Also the MAF clan might want to let their guild members it brings shame to the guild to get caught botting.
The secret to getting all the important stuff done is doing nothing.
Terra
Newly Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2015, 16:40

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Terra »

Weird system. If no GMs online, botting is allowed. If no one GM see it, then this is not botting, right?
The problem is only wushin was online when that player botting. I sent "@wgm" message with no results. Why no one GM was online?

Cause it's a shame for all "MAF clan" (as you name it).

This is not first time when I see bots on 010-1 map. This map is very bot-active. Please let GMs pay more attention to this map. Almost every day someone botting on this map.
Rawng
Peon
Peon
Posts: 30
Joined: 27 Nov 2013, 17:01

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Rawng »

Terra wrote:Weird system. If no GMs online, botting is allowed.
I've seen this posted a few times by a couple users and I'm really curious as to what you think you're talking about. Do you think a magical always watching fairy just snaps her fingers and anyone botting is banned? Take a moment and think. Botters cannot be banned if there is no GM online to ban them.

This ties in nicely with something else you said:
Terra wrote:Why no one GM was online?
As I'm sure you've seen people say, GM's are all volunteers. This means that they are not required to be online when people think they should be. If you'd like to tell someone when to be online GMing this game you should hire them.
Terra
Newly Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2015, 16:40

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Terra »

Dear Rawng,
all what you said means we have big problem with no solution.
Ok, GMs are volunteers and can't be always online. I understand. BUT bots can be online at any time.
Just one question to you: what we can do in this situation? We have a problem. Where is solution for this problem? Please suggest any solution! For now you not suggested anything, only said there is no solution here.

For this specific case (with MAF-Ninjaz) I suggest one solution:
Ok, wushin not allowed by rules to ban anyone. But wushin is witness of that botting and me witness too. Two witnesses are enough to ban this player now. Any GM can make this ban. I hope wushin is trusted here to be witness.
We all sure there was botting. Why we can't ban him now?
This forum section name is Court House. Let Court House work.
User avatar
Cassy
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 791
Joined: 09 Mar 2013, 09:39
Location: ♥ Fluffyland ♥
Contact:

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Cassy »

Botting isn't a topic since yesterday, it's a problem existing for years and years, so TMW has quite some experience with it.
Of course you are right, it is a big problem.

Well but we also say it again and again that we need more GMs to cover times when there is none online.
Here we have the proof of it again :?

So please always take part in GM suggestions, make one yourself when you think someone is suitable and tell your clan members to participate too ;)
GM Community Suggestions


Moving this thread from Court House to Player Talk.


Edit: Nearly forgot to answer this:
Terra wrote:For this specific case (with MAF-Ninjaz) I suggest one solution:
Ok, wushin not allowed by rules to ban anyone. But wushin is witness of that botting and me witness too. Two witnesses are enough to ban this player now. Any GM can make this ban. I hope wushin is trusted here to be witness.
We all sure there was botting. Why we can't ban him now?
This forum section name is Court House. Let Court House work.
Only GMs are voted by the community to be trustful enforcers of the rules who therefore are also able and allowed to take certain actions like banning a player.
Remember: All GMs are members of the TMWC, but not all members of TMWC are also GMs ;)
Main characters:
Lv.94 - Cassy - speedarcher on dark path, bunny-wannabe, would like to ride on a Mouboo once...
Lv.95 - Biqcassy - mage on light path, addicted to her Fluffy Hat, love-hates Fallens, really misses Confused Tree...
Lv.70 - Simca. - dreams of becoming a speedarcher on light path, still has a lot to learn...

Personal development overview | priorities | wiki to-do | wiki profile incl. other characters

[20:24:59] <Cassy> debug npc in crypts!
[20:25:02] <Cassy> just a joke...
[20:25:08] <wushin> DONT DO THAT
[20:25:10] <o11c> !slap Cassy
Rawng
Peon
Peon
Posts: 30
Joined: 27 Nov 2013, 17:01

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Rawng »

On the contrary Terra, I consider this a minor problem which has already been solved. If bots were a "big problem" there would be highly noticeable effects from their actions, and yet, we see nothing. Bots are dealt with effectively through the current system (aside from the workload on current GM's.)

You say "BUT bots can be online at any time": Yes, that's correct. Nothing will ever be able to stop bots from coming online. It's a fools errand to even try. The only thing you can do is ban them when they are caught. If Ninjaz continues botting he will be banned. It's as simple as that.

Quite frankly, I think you're a very obvious troll. Who in the world goes to the gm logs to check whether or not a player was banned? :lol: And then you come to the forums and make provocative statements regarding the rules. Why didn't you make a thread pointing out the bots you see on 010-1 in an effort to bring more attention to them? I guess it was more entertaining to stir the pot.
Terra
Newly Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2015, 16:40

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Terra »

To Rawng:

The fact we can see bots in this game make real pain to normal players who doing hard work when leveling and collecting items. Is this not a problem for you? Ok. But for some people including me this is a great problem.

Some other points of rules may be not so serious problems. For example I never report if I see someone speaking not in english in public. I know this is against rules, but for me this is not a problem.

Only because I hate bots from deep of my heart I try to fight them as I can and where I can. Look, I have banned one other bot before: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19026. Many thanks to Prsm for help. I write no one line of text here about that case. Only reward I need is feeling better every time when bot is banned. I reading "Court House" section on this forum everyday to see which bots are banned. And that day I found no message about banned bot here on forum. Just because of this I started to read GM logs.

In case with Ninjaz: he can freely return to game now. May be he never do botting again, but he can use that xp and items collected when he do botting. Where is the justice? I want to see him banned "with a reset on the first offense", as said in rules. This is my only wish.

And you name me "troll" just because I want to fight bots? If every bot is banned as it must be, then I may be never start to write anything here on forum. May be you are troll here, not me.
If anyone think I am a TROLL, then I can stop writing here on forum forever.
I can stop fighting bots, I can stop playing this game... Or I can start botting myself, until you ban me. I feeling pain because of bot-protectors like you, Rawng. May be you using bots too, because of this you trying to protect it so? You don't understand my feelings :alt-4:

Ok, I am troll now, kill me, ban me :alt-4:. And mana world is game for bots, not for normal players :alt-4:.
I want to hear apologize from you, Rawng. IMO you are only troll here, in this topic.
You hear no more answers from me after this.
User avatar
wushin
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1759
Joined: 18 Dec 2012, 05:56
Location: RiverBest, Brew City, Merica
Contact:

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by wushin »

Terra botting is against the rules and bots get banned. Not at all staff have this ability and the staff with the ability to ban is not on all the time. If you want to help kill bots elect more GMs to police the bots. We have no other recourse. Remember all the staff do this in there free time and are unpaid.
The secret to getting all the important stuff done is doing nothing.
Terra
Newly Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2015, 16:40

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Terra »

Sorry, wushin, I understand all what you said before. And I already write my opinion about problem. We can finish it for now.

My previous post addressed only for Rawng.
He insult me twice:
  • First time when he said this is not a problem and we should not try to solve it. He said we should not fight bots. This words are really painful for me.
  • Second time he said I am a troll. This words killing me :alt-4: If I am a troll, then you can ban me forever :alt-4:
I wait for apologize from him.
User avatar
wushin
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1759
Joined: 18 Dec 2012, 05:56
Location: RiverBest, Brew City, Merica
Contact:

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by wushin »

Terra they didn't mean it like that at all. Rawng was just stating the truth of what we do with our limited resources to manage bots. Also within the organizational make up I've no authority to ban people for botting. We put this rule in place as other people in my position before have over stepped their bounds and banned wantonly and recklessly. Trust me, I'd love to ban him but we have procedures in place.

Please don't take offence. No one here is trying to troll you. Assume first and foremost it's a communication problem. As many cultures and languages are a bound here in game. We have quite the diverse make up of players and devs.

Remember we have a large population for a few people to deal with and we are all humans, we can get irritated and cranky at times, but I promise you we have nothing but good intentions for the players.

I'm sure Rawng meant no harm and would have no problem saying they are sorry if you were offended as I doubt trolling or being mean was their tone or point. Rawng was trying to explain what we have in place and nothing more.
The secret to getting all the important stuff done is doing nothing.
Terra
Newly Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2015, 16:40

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Terra »

wushin, you should not protect Rawng. In this quote he exactly name me "troll":
Rawng wrote:Quite frankly, I think you're a very obvious troll. Who in the world goes to the gm logs to check whether or not a player was banned? :lol:
This is not your fault. I wait apologize only from Rawng.
User avatar
wushin
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1759
Joined: 18 Dec 2012, 05:56
Location: RiverBest, Brew City, Merica
Contact:

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by wushin »

Ahh, well Rawng most likely doesn't know that people religiously check those things. They are newer to the development team and bit inexperienced with the player base. Like I said misunderstanding from both parties.
The secret to getting all the important stuff done is doing nothing.
Rawng
Peon
Peon
Posts: 30
Joined: 27 Nov 2013, 17:01

Re: Only kick for botting?

Post by Rawng »

Terra wrote:You don't understand my feelings
You are right, I do not understand your feelings. I responded to you the way I did because you were attacking the institution that runs this game and some specific figures in it. That was completely unwarranted and disrespectful to the people who devote their time and energy giving you a free game to play. If your motives were as you say they are, then I am sorry for calling you a troll.
Terra wrote:May be you using bots too, because of this you trying to protect it so?
First time when he said this is not a problem and we should not try to solve it. He said we should not fight bots.
This is just wrong. If I were saying we should not fight bots I would be advocating to end the ban on bots, or to make using them a kickable offense rather than bannable. Obviously I'm not doing this. Bots left unchecked are a big problem. TMW's check on them is for GM's to ban them when a bot check is failed. That is why I say that the problem is solved. Note I said that as a direct response to:
Terra wrote:all what you said means we have big problem with no solution.
Ok, GMs are volunteers and can't be always online. I understand. BUT bots can be online at any time.
Just one question to you: what we can do in this situation? We have a problem. Where is solution for this problem? Please suggest any solution! For now you not suggested anything, only said there is no solution here.
In defense of my position on that I will respond to something else you've said:
Terra wrote:The fact we can see bots in this game make real pain to normal players who doing hard work when leveling and collecting items. Is this not a problem for you? Ok. But for some people including me this is a great problem.
What do you mean by "make real pain"? Do you mean that something tangible from the game world is taken from you because of their activity? That something you would have collected (items, exp) was robbed from you because the bot was there?

In my opinion this complaint has no legs. If the bots were never banned, and there were always scores of them all over the place pushing out real players, then yes, it would be a problem. But a few bots, for a short amount of time (before being banned) does not cause anyone any real injury or harm. Mobs spawn plentifully, items and exp are plentiful (if slow to gain.)

Or do you mean that their very existence causes you emotional pain? As you said:
Terra wrote:In case with Ninjaz: he can freely return to game now. May be he never do botting again, but he can use that xp and items collected when he do botting. Where is the justice?
Well, I'm sorry to say it but that doesn't mean that the bots are having any real effect on the game. And at the end of the day, if the bots are not having a real effect on the game, then they are not a problem (we have the current bot procedures to thank for this). Things that are not problems do not need solutions.

All of this is my opinion. At the end of the day I'm just another person interested in TMW just like you. Don't think that my word carries any weight with regards to the direction to the project. Again, if what you have said regarding your motives is true, then I am sorry for calling you a troll. But I do not take kindly to people unjustly attack the people volunteering their time to any project that gives things away for free.
Post Reply