Maps on New Server

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imachine
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Maps on New Server

Post by imachine » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:34 pm

Hi,

So I see currently TMW terribly suffers from supposedly the worse thing that can hit a MMORPG - almost no locations! That doesn't even partially look like a world, just like some random maps thrown together!

It's way too small. Now, that is cool and all, but it requires human interaction to put stuff in there, i.e., maps and so forth. Let's go a different approach here.

Anyone who played Bl1zzard's D1ablo knows how labirynths and areas were generated randomly, except for the town. Well, my suggestion for TMW is, building an engine which would do just that. Upon a character going into a yet unknown area, the engine would generate a new map, and save it for later for others in the server sql.

This should be tried and tested, but imo would generate a lot better results and richer worlds than waiting for people to submit their ready made maps, with graphics sometimes not too great, mistakes etc.

The human factor slows it down.

Plus, it would be definetly an original approach. The engine could then be improved to place random NPC's and also the devs could put up villages randomly on the map manually ofcourse, once it's generated.

I can help test :-) Also, since that probably might require some firepower, and could cause problems for smoothness (say more than one char enters a previously unknown idea, the first character causes the generation process while the others are waiting untill it's done), I'd say the areas would have to have adjacent exit areas generated as well. Plus, some of the generation could be done on the client side, the server would simply pass some values (random seed data) against which the client would then generate the work and send the made values, sharing the workload.
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Post by Crush » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:02 pm

Procedural generated maps don't work together with our world development plans.

And it isn't like we would lack manpower to create maps. We got plenty of people who can map or would like to map. But there are two completely unrelated factors that block the map development:

1. We got no monsters to put them on the new maps.

2. The whole world concept development is currently half-finished and the people who worked on it are inactive. Pulling out more maps would make it even harder to retcon the already created gameworld into the concept. Letting the world grow uncontrolled at the moment would either mean that we would have to throw away a lot of maps or create a ridiculous world concept.

For that reason we currently don't support the creation of new maps as long as it isn't necessary to introduce new tilesets.


Oh, and by the way:
some of the generation could be done on the client side, the server would simply pass some values (random seed data) against which the client would then generate the work and send the made values, sharing the workload.
is a really bad idea. Never trust client data!
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Post by imachine » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:42 am

I suppose you're definetly right about client data... Well, currently afaik there is more than one server out there, so those could probably be used together on making the grid bigger and bigger.

As regards monsters, I think you should keep in mind we don't need new monsters on every map.. As long as the tileset fits, we can have similar, different strength monsters. It's ever natural to find scorpions occuring in deserts, having one than more desert area is not bad either... for example down south from the mines on current maps.

Also, if the developers find my suggestions about monster level interesting, we would have variety not only by different shapes and kinds of monsters, but by their skill/rank(whatever) as well.

As regards purely automated creation, creating an engine behind it doesn't necesarily have to force the usage of it just for purely automated tasks.

Creating vast amounts of space imo gives the MMORPG a nice feel. It makes the player indeed feel like he's inside a world, not a few locations bumped together.

The engine could be used by map/area developers to generate some mid-area, between basic places such as towns/areas of interest.

This would make the work smoother, more standards compliant (since everyone could/should be encouraged to use the generator once it's in place), hence also giveth the game more of a unified feel.

Even for towns/areas of interest, it too could be used for example to make exits/"warp zones" join in with surrounding maps more easily, and/or for making a base to put roads buildings and what not.

Something like a 'scenario creation mode', think Transport Tycoon here or Warcraft Map Editor, would be the first step to achieve I reckon.

If not placed on the server side, that would make it not necesarily top priority, but I suppose it certainly could make it easier/quicker to develop more standard-compliant and unified maps so it's still reasonably important.

Shall we move this thread's topic to discussing what these standards would/should be then? I propose so, keeping an under topic of the thread at if it's really even a good idea to make this happen.

I'll search the wiki for the world concept info, I suppose at some point a brainstorm should be held regarding this subject.

Finally, another thing just occured to me regarding maps - a world map. By that, I mean say putting a caravan in the desert and allowing the player to make a journey to adjacent, but far away for standard movement, lands.

Supposedly, mountains in the north, oceans in the south, that kind of stuff... Is there some planet/general concept to gnaw at? I'm sorry if I ask a lot of seemingly obvious questions, I'm just quite new to getting real with tmw, I played before, it is only recently that I've acctually had ideas about improving it :) I'll be looking at the wiki as we speak.

I think (offtopicaly) having development for basic tilesets for different areas (rocky/mountainous in, say, north, ocean/mediterranean area, so forth) would be a good start too. We wouldn't have to have strange areas joined together then - the first area where the player begins his journey would be the sandy surroundings of the main town/spawn point, then as the game progresses the player could pay a caravan to travel to mountains with completely different colours and feel to it, so forth. That's the kind of feel I had playing for example Flashback back when I was a child and entering a new area/arena was a whole different experience, graphically and not only. It built up a feel of realism.
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