Please more balance for the game

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Alderan
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Please more balance for the game

Post by Alderan » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:17 am

I think that the game has some playability problems.

- A lot of dexterity is needed to hit monsters hence swordsman need to invest points in dexterity while archers do not need any strength.

- Possibility of fast attacks makes the game trivial for skilled players but for novice players it is hard. Why server does not limit the attack speed?

- Low level players have problems with bow since they can't afford arrows. The monster drops doesn't cover their expenses.
[High level archer also can't live without going to killing session to the cave in desert] I suggest that more monsters should drop some valuable stuff for sell.

- Maybe easy monsters could be near the starting point and more difficult monsters on the other side of the world. Imagine a novice player - he will stay in town since he is unable to kill monsters in the second location - while he would be able to kill monsters on the other side of the world. Silly. [just rearrange monster stats]

I saw this over a year ago and it is still in the game

BTW: 62 LVL archer.
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Eliott
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Post by Eliott » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:04 am

i think you're right, but don't forget : a game too easy is a boring game :(
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Re: Please more balance for the game

Post by Crush » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:53 pm

Alderan wrote:I think that the game has some playability problems.

- A lot of dexterity is needed to hit monsters hence swordsman need to invest points in dexterity while archers do not need any strength.

- Possibility of fast attacks makes the game trivial for skilled players but for novice players it is hard. Why server does not limit the attack speed?
The server software we are using is third party. Thus we can't change any server-sided bugs or game system inconsistencies. Or rather we won't invest time in changing them because we are currently developing our own server software from scratch. For more information about our new server please read http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?t=2461
- Low level players have problems with bow since they can't afford arrows. The monster drops doesn't cover their expenses.
[High level archer also can't live without going to killing session to the cave in desert] I suggest that more monsters should drop some valuable stuff for sell.

- Maybe easy monsters could be near the starting point and more difficult monsters on the other side of the world. Imagine a novice player - he will stay in town since he is unable to kill monsters in the second location - while he would be able to kill monsters on the other side of the world. Silly. [just rearrange monster stats]
This, on the other hand, can be fixed. Unfortunately there hasn't been anyone yet who got the time, the technical knowledge, the theoretical knowledge of game mechanics AND the practical gameplay experience to do this. But applications are always welcome.
  • former Manasource Programmer
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Platyna
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Re: Please more balance for the game

Post by Platyna » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:03 pm

Alderan wrote:I think that the game has some playability problems.

- A lot of dexterity is needed to hit monsters hence swordsman need to invest points in dexterity while archers do not need any strength.
Well that's the point of the game. I am planning to add stronger swords though.
- Possibility of fast attacks makes the game trivial for skilled players but for novice players it is hard. Why server does not limit the attack speed?
We can't do anything about this on eAthena. On the new server it shouldn't be possible.
- Low level players have problems with bow since they can't afford arrows. The monster drops doesn't cover their expenses.
How come? You can get a dagger and buy 200 arrows for the selling price, or you may have a bow and a dagger and kill monsters when you are short of arrows, quite real life way.
[High level archer also can't live without going to killing session to the cave in desert] I suggest that more monsters should drop some valuable stuff for sell.
High level archers has alot of money and loot, they are something managing to do it. You can't expect the game being so easy and nice, I think in the future it will be even better when warriors will sometimes need to drop the high level monsters and try other things to sustain a living.
- Maybe easy monsters could be near the starting point and more difficult monsters on the other side of the world. Imagine a novice player - he will stay in town since he is unable to kill monsters in the second location - while he would be able to kill monsters on the other side of the world. Silly. [just rearrange monster stats]
I saw this over a year ago and it is still in the game
Why? Players should explore, when you are starting your "life" in TMW you can't expect it to be all plain and easy. However I am open for discussion if the map leading to Woodland Village should contain monsters that attacks players.

Regards.
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
[The rest of this signature was censored by TMWC's "Freedom" and "Free speech".]
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5t3v3
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Post by 5t3v3 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:45 am

Both archers and warriors have their advantages and disadvantages.

Archers
Pro: You have less stats to worry about.
Pro: Since your attack is ranged you can cover a bigger area and level up slightly faster.
Pro: You can reach extremely strong attacks.
Con: You'll constantly have to worry about money for arrows.
Con: If you get cornered or face a large pack of monsters you'll die fast.
Con: It might be a little challenging to level up in those first 20 to 30 levels before you get your fist bow since you'll give all your points to dexterity.

Warriors
Pro: You won't have to worry that much about money.
Pro: You won't die easily and you'll be able to survive large packs of high level monsters.
Pro: Since you have a relatively high dexterity, you can always use bows to, when you're in over your head.
Con: You're attacks will be a bit weaker since you have more stats to take care off.
Con: Balancing your stats right is more challenging.

I think the monsters already drop more then enough valuables. Especially in the miners cave. And if you're still low on cash, hunt some red scorpions in the dessert and sell all the drops. I doesn't make sense to complain about the disadvantages, they are what makes the game balanced (albeit unplanned). You made your bed, now sleep in it! And if you can't sleep in it, make a new character and balance it differently.
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Re: Please more balance for the game

Post by Sertraline » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:23 am

Crush wrote: This, on the other hand, can be fixed. Unfortunately there hasn't been anyone yet who got the time, the technical knowledge, the theoretical knowledge of game mechanics AND the practical gameplay experience to do this. But applications are always welcome.
...paging QOAL to the thread
Alderan
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Re: Please more balance for the game

Post by Alderan » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:32 am

Crush wrote: The server software we are using is third party.
eAthena is an open source project. Have you tried to ask them?
Platyna wrote: Well that's the point of the game. I am planning to add stronger swords though.
What about to solve the accuracy problem in the following way:
Required accuracy depends on the distance from the target. Hence close standing swordsman has no problem while far standing archer needs to be more accurate. (Is it possible to do this on the new server?)
Platyna wrote: Why? Players should explore, when you are starting your "life" in TMW you can't expect it to be all plain and easy. However I am open for discussion if the map leading to Woodland Village should contain monsters that attacks players.
I'm not against aggressive monsters but I think that paths between towns are safe unless "the other town" is for high level player only.
There is no obvious path to other towns so maybe there could be at least some NPC with quest something like - Bring this to someone in the other town. - of course the quest has some description how to get there. Maybe something like 5 black scorpion stings.
BTW I was suggesting a safe travel path a long time ago.
5t3v3 wrote: I think the monsters already drop more then enough valuables. Especially in the miners cave.
Hence once I get to the cave I spend there all my archers live since I have no motivation to go elsewhere since this is the best place. Lot of monsters with reasonable exps and drops for money. The game should take you through the whole world and not lock you in one cave (unless it is the "final" location in the game.)

Well maybe there could be something like gaining only a few exps from monsters with lower level would force you to change locations. Maybe if the monster is less that 15 levels below yours you get only 1exp.

Archers
Pro: You get hurt very very rarely.
Pro: You can wear same armor like warriors

What about to create moving monsters with far ranged attack?
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Re: Please more balance for the game

Post by Platyna » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:34 pm

Crush wrote: This, on the other hand, can be fixed. Unfortunately there hasn't been anyone yet who got the time, the technical knowledge, the theoretical knowledge of game mechanics AND the practical gameplay experience to do this. But applications are always welcome.
Oh really? I thought I had, that's why I was made a game system developer and managed to balance the game a little better. It happens I am quite busy recently, but I am open for cooperation and I can give hints to anyone willing to help. But honestly I am waiting for the new server.
Alderan wrote:
Crush wrote: The server software we are using is third party.
eAthena is an open source project. Have you tried to ask them?
I tried several times when we have encountered problems during upgrade (that's why we are running an ancient version of eathena). Their support channel is filled with idiot kids and their developers are not answering any emails. And we are going to drag our programmers off new server and make them h4x0r1ng the eAthena code.
Platyna wrote: Well that's the point of the game. I am planning to add stronger swords though.
What about to solve the accuracy problem in the following way:
Required accuracy depends on the distance from the target. Hence close standing swordsman has no problem while far standing archer needs to be more accurate. (Is it possible to do this on the new server?)
I don't think so. Rather not.
Platyna wrote: Why? Players should explore, when you are starting your "life" in TMW you can't expect it to be all plain and easy. However I am open for discussion if the map leading to Woodland Village should contain monsters that attacks players.
I'm not against aggressive monsters but I think that paths between towns are safe unless "the other town" is for high level player only.
There is no obvious path to other towns so maybe there could be at least some NPC with quest something like - Bring this to someone in the other town. - of course the quest has some description how to get there. Maybe something like 5 black scorpion stings.
BTW I was suggesting a safe travel path a long time ago.
If we get a new map that would be a good idea to make a alternative, longer path, there are alot unused portals.


Regards.
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
[The rest of this signature was censored by TMWC's "Freedom" and "Free speech".]
Alderan
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Re: Please more balance for the game

Post by Alderan » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:38 pm

Platyna wrote:
Alderan wrote: eAthena is an open source project. Have you tried to ask them?
I tried several times when we have encountered problems during upgrade (that's why we are running an ancient version of eathena). Their support channel is filled with idiot kids and their developers are not answering any emails. And we are going to drag our programmers off new server and make them h4x0r1ng the eAthena code.
OK. Now I see. It is pity. Focusing on new server is of course a better idea than hacking some ancient version of eAthena.

Platyna wrote: If we get a new map that would be a good idea to make a alternative, longer path, there are alot unused portals.
It is not a systematic approach but what about just some tunnel connecting towns. Of course entering to the tunnel will cost some minor fee. :)

Or for example in WOW there are sign along the path. So there could be some navigation signs (with a picture of a town....)
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